Transvox - Whatever it Takes - A project to improve Cancer services for the trans+ community.

[00:00:00] Hi, a bach i gael transvox i'r ffordd. A dweud ydych chi'n dweud yma yn y ffôr hynny.

[00:00:12] A oeddwn i'n gweithio gweithio'r ffordd yn gweithio'r ffordd o'r cymunedol,

[00:00:19] a'r cymunedol yw'r ffordd yn cael ei wneud.

[00:00:21] Mae'r ffordd yn ardalau ymddangos, ac mae'n gweithio'r ffordd yn cael ei bod yn gweithio.

[00:00:25] a we've been working a little bit with the community research team at Bournemouth University

[00:00:32] and Stevie Corbyn Clark is with us today to talk about broadly a little bit more about the project

[00:00:37] and Casey Monday is also with us today who's also going to talk in more depth about

[00:00:41] how things are going, what's going on and such like.

[00:00:43] So first of all welcome, Stevie, how are you?

[00:00:46] Hi, I'm great, thank you.

[00:00:48] Perfect and Casey, how are you doing?

[00:00:50] Yeah, very well, thanks, yeah.

[00:00:52] Great, there's the voices so now we know where we are.

[00:00:55] So Stevie, do you want to take a little bit through this project and the thinking behind it and where it's come from?

[00:01:01] Yes, absolutely.

[00:01:02] So as Jillian said I am part of a research team at Bournemouth University

[00:01:09] and we have a history, a 20 year long history now of this sort of community research model that we use

[00:01:19] and we have sort of just, well I say just begun but we're actually now six months in to this incredibly,

[00:01:28] well as it was introduced hopefully going to be a really impactful project

[00:01:33] focusing around understanding cancer services for the trans-plus community and what that looks like.

[00:01:43] So yeah.

[00:01:47] So tell me a bit about the community research model and how it's different to a standard research model for those that might not know?

[00:01:55] Yeah, so the model which was developed by our peer partnership which is public engagement in education and research

[00:02:03] and it is at the heart of it is making sure that lived experience expertise is involved at all stages of a project.

[00:02:11] So from designing the project all the way through to sort of dissemination of the outputs and the findings.

[00:02:17] So that's why we've got an amazing team of community researchers which includes Katie on board leading the project.

[00:02:26] That's so important to us.

[00:02:28] And because I'm guessing you have people who are part of the community

[00:02:31] they are able to access and give a different dimension maybe uncover different facets is that part of it?

[00:02:37] Yes, well yeah absolutely.

[00:02:40] I mean how the way that research has been done historically, not our thing.

[00:02:47] We want to totally mix it out. How can you do a research project about a group or community without them being involved?

[00:02:53] To me that just feels absolutely ridiculous.

[00:02:55] So they really, yeah, from the very beginning what questions are we asking?

[00:03:03] Are we asking the right questions? What do we need to know?

[00:03:06] How do we engage with this group in the most effective way?

[00:03:10] Things like that.

[00:03:11] Okay, so before I talk to Katie and a bit more depth about these things.

[00:03:15] So what aspects of cancer services are you looking at?

[00:03:18] Is everything a start, finish or specific elements?

[00:03:21] Give me a bit of a feel for the whole concept.

[00:03:26] Yes so that's something that we talk about a lot and it's really important to us that we include absolutely everything.

[00:03:32] From screenings to diagnosis treatment and also even things just like advertisements and messaging you receive, letters, things like that.

[00:03:43] How are we communicating with people?

[00:03:45] Because from the very initial sort of, I mean we're all receiving stuff all the time aren't we?

[00:03:51] We're all seeing stuff all the time and it really matters.

[00:03:53] It really makes a difference how people engage with these services.

[00:03:56] So it's absolutely everything from beginning to end.

[00:04:01] Fantastic.

[00:04:02] And so it's final question because that was the final question, one more little question.

[00:04:07] So I'm guessing that this research model is a great way to look at all sorts of disadvantaged communities or minority communities.

[00:04:14] So it's not just trans people, I'm guessing there are other projects looking at other areas?

[00:04:18] Absolutely and that's the plan and Katie and I actually have worked together on a previous project.

[00:04:24] So we've been working together for a couple of years now.

[00:04:27] Our previous project was fairly similar but it was a pilot project so it was shorter, it was a six month project

[00:04:32] and it was around understanding cancer services for those with a disability.

[00:04:38] And so this sort of developed on from that and we're hoping that it continues to grow and grow and grow.

[00:04:43] But absolutely, we use this across lots of different projects within the peer partnership.

[00:04:49] Brilliant.

[00:04:50] So Katie, it sounds absolutely brilliant.

[00:04:52] Tell me a bit more about you and your role within it.

[00:04:56] Yeah, so I would be considered a community researcher.

[00:05:00] So I'm part of the trans plus community.

[00:05:03] I consider myself to be genderqueer and just queer in general, that's just how I talk about myself.

[00:05:09] So I suppose it's like Stevie was saying, if we're doing research with people who are from marginalized groups,

[00:05:17] from oppressed groups, I feel like and we say historically but it's still going on now.

[00:05:23] Research feels like a very much, I just want to come in,

[00:05:27] gather your information and then run away with it screaming to the hills,

[00:05:31] write my papers and lovely jubbly.

[00:05:33] That's my career.

[00:05:35] That's my tick box of equality, diversity and inclusion.

[00:05:39] Oh, lovely.

[00:05:40] I've spoken to some trans people or I've spoken to this group of people.

[00:05:44] Whereas what we're doing with Bournemouth Peer and Help and Care,

[00:05:50] Wessex Cancer Alliance, Macmillan, Wessex Cancer Trust, all the other.

[00:05:57] And with yourselves at Beyond Reflections is working with trans people to actually

[00:06:04] listen to uplift, champion our experiences and you can't do that in a room full of cisgender people.

[00:06:12] No matter how knowledgeable allied these people are, it's just sorry,

[00:06:18] these people sounds a bit derogatory, but you know how yeah there are just things about.

[00:06:26] But people don't understand why not, why is that so important?

[00:06:34] Because there's just lived experience that you just, if you're not a trans person,

[00:06:40] you can have as much knowledge and professional experiences as you like.

[00:06:44] But if you're not trans then you can't understand what it feels like to be trans going about your everyday life.

[00:06:52] No, even just research, just like going down to the shops and how do I want people to perceive me?

[00:06:57] How do I want to present myself? Are people going to misgender me?

[00:07:00] And all these other things.

[00:07:02] But also can't understand trans joy and what that might look like and what that might look like in health care as well.

[00:07:09] Which sounds like a strange thing to say around cancer services.

[00:07:14] But I think that trans joy can exist and should exist within health care.

[00:07:19] And why shouldn't it?

[00:07:20] Yeah.

[00:07:21] I also think it's interesting the way you introduced yourself.

[00:07:23] You talked about gender queer and you're using terminology in a way that our community understands,

[00:07:28] which an external person might not as well.

[00:07:30] So you don't have to explain all the codes as it were.

[00:07:34] It's like all part of the same team to start off with.

[00:07:37] And I sort of get that.

[00:07:39] So basically as a community researcher you're part of the community

[00:07:42] and you're adding value to the process and you obviously, I'm guessing managing groups or something.

[00:07:48] How is that working?

[00:07:50] How is the physical process of research taking place?

[00:07:54] At the moment we're recruiting groups.

[00:07:57] So we're going out and doing creative workshops,

[00:07:59] which worked really well on our disability one that Stevie and I did last year.

[00:08:05] Yeah before.

[00:08:05] Oh, I don't know. I tied the trundles on.

[00:08:09] And basically going out to people and seeing what they want to share with us.

[00:08:14] And for some people that will be a lot of information.

[00:08:17] For some people that won't be so much.

[00:08:20] And there's a creative process to that.

[00:08:23] I find that when we found this with the disability group as well,

[00:08:28] that when you're engaged in something physical,

[00:08:32] the words come easier.

[00:08:36] So what we're doing is basically coming along with light pink, light blue and white squares

[00:08:43] and getting people to do tapestry based artwork.

[00:08:47] I mean, we tried this a couple of weeks ago as a community researchers

[00:08:51] and all of our squares looked completely and utterly different.

[00:08:55] There was I think there was wax crayons and one

[00:08:57] and I went very kind of punk DIY with just loads of like writing and safety pins

[00:09:02] and stuff kind of stuck on it because I'm not very good at sewing.

[00:09:06] And then someone else, you can tell there's an art major in our group as well.

[00:09:11] Because his was very pretty.

[00:09:14] So yeah, so it's all about if you feel like you can't talk about your experiences,

[00:09:20] then there's another way to express yourself.

[00:09:23] And then all of these stories will eventually be kind of added together

[00:09:27] into a giant trans flag, which hopefully will make the rounds.

[00:09:33] And are you looking for people to join the groups

[00:09:35] who have lived experience of cancer or have survived it or poster

[00:09:39] or people who experience around families or people who are even fearing it?

[00:09:43] What stage do people need to be in?

[00:09:46] There can be any because services includes like Stevie was saying,

[00:09:50] the information that you might read on Cancer Research UK

[00:09:53] or you might read on the Macmillan website.

[00:09:57] It might be that you've had cancer, someone that you love or support has had cancer.

[00:10:01] We're not really too focused on that criteria

[00:10:06] because all of the journey, if you are on a cancer journey is important.

[00:10:12] So I don't have lived experiences of cancer,

[00:10:15] but I do have lived experiences as a trans person going in for cervical screenings.

[00:10:21] As an example from the disability one,

[00:10:26] we had a person who said that they were asked to go for a mammogram

[00:10:31] and that they absolutely were not going to go in for a mammogram

[00:10:34] and gave their reasons why that was.

[00:10:38] So any kind of interaction with cancer services of any sort, really.

[00:10:43] Interesting.

[00:10:45] And so Stevie just switching back to you for me where so the process is getting started.

[00:10:51] Tell me about what you expect to be the life of the project

[00:10:55] and what do you see at the end of this?

[00:10:59] Yes, so we're about halfway through.

[00:11:02] We are, as we said, sort of scheduling in these workshops.

[00:11:05] We've got lots of exciting things coming up.

[00:11:07] We're planning to go to some pride events across the south

[00:11:11] in a really exciting research bus and hopefully speak to some people there.

[00:11:16] We've got plans for some big events at the end of this,

[00:11:20] sharing at different events and conferences and things like that.

[00:11:25] You know, we'll do all the classics of research stuff as well

[00:11:27] alongside that, write some papers, you know, really get this out there.

[00:11:31] There's so many ways that we're planning on sharing this

[00:11:34] and I'm really excited as we were talking about the creative side of things.

[00:11:37] We've got this really physical output

[00:11:41] and hopefully something that looks marvellous and is really engaging

[00:11:44] and people will want to engage with.

[00:11:46] So I think that the possibilities are endless

[00:11:49] for what we could do in ways we could share what we find from this project.

[00:11:54] Yeah, obviously, you know, we want to reach the NHS.

[00:11:58] We've got, actually, we should probably talk a bit about

[00:12:02] who else is involved in the team because I think that that's really helpful.

[00:12:07] So it just made me think we've got an absolutely wonderful

[00:12:11] clinical nurse specialist on our team

[00:12:14] and she was involved in the previous project as well.

[00:12:17] She's called Amanda. She's just absolutely fantastic.

[00:12:21] She is she works in Southampton.

[00:12:25] But I mean, we saw in the previous project

[00:12:28] just from her going back and speaking to her team,

[00:12:31] speaking to the managers around her and things like that.

[00:12:35] People listened, people wanted to hear,

[00:12:38] you know, especially in the way that we were conducting the research.

[00:12:40] I think it just really engaged people.

[00:12:43] So that's a really, really wonderful asset that we have in our team.

[00:12:48] Yeah, I don't know if I should continue

[00:12:50] talking about all the rest of the team is quite a big team.

[00:12:53] That is. And I'm just interested though.

[00:12:54] So, of course, obviously as a podcast,

[00:12:56] we have people in various parts of the world and famously are a single listener

[00:13:00] and I want is someone who always makes sure that we mention every episode.

[00:13:04] I mean, are you interested in the views of people who are outside of the UK

[00:13:07] or is this mostly UK things?

[00:13:10] So, for example, is there a link that people can click on to do

[00:13:13] to do some responses without having to turn up to a group, for example?

[00:13:17] A really good question.

[00:13:18] So yes, there is that there is an online submission link

[00:13:21] and we can share with you all of the links to all of the information

[00:13:24] and everything like that.

[00:13:25] So there's a place where you can upload any anything creative that you want to add

[00:13:29] or you can just write something or whatever.

[00:13:31] So yes, that that's an option in terms of outside of the UK.

[00:13:34] I think we are we are keen to hear anyone's view

[00:13:38] that wants anyone's experiences that wants to share with us.

[00:13:40] Absolutely, because regardless of where you're experiencing something,

[00:13:44] you know, what's going to benefit you might benefit someone else and whatever.

[00:13:48] Obviously this at the moment,

[00:13:51] we're not organising any workshop outside of the the Wessex area.

[00:13:55] And I don't know if everyone knows what's included in the Wessex area,

[00:13:57] but sort of mid south of England purely because,

[00:14:04] you know, transparently this project at the moment only has

[00:14:08] we only have sort of the I don't know what the word is.

[00:14:13] We're only looking to reach this area in terms of the outputs

[00:14:17] and stuff like that.

[00:14:19] So, you know, we wouldn't want to think that we're including,

[00:14:22] you know, we're doing a workshop up in the north somewhere.

[00:14:25] But then in terms of like the reach of the outputs and stuff

[00:14:28] that they're not perhaps going to be able to be as involved in that side of things.

[00:14:32] Yes.

[00:14:33] Yeah, someone sitting in the north at the moment, I'm very disappointed to hear that.

[00:14:36] So.

[00:14:38] Well, don't feel a future.

[00:14:40] We'll continue to grow and we'll take over the whole world.

[00:14:43] Fantastic.

[00:14:44] So, so Katie, so if somebody's thinking about helping or joining in,

[00:14:50] what's the experience that they're going to to encounter?

[00:14:53] What process will they bump into as they roll through this?

[00:14:56] What's going to be like to engage?

[00:14:58] So, for example, if I was going to join in, where would I start?

[00:15:03] So you would start with all the links that Stevie was just talking about,

[00:15:07] which we will send your way.

[00:15:09] We've got a new website now and a blog.

[00:15:12] It will have who's on the team.

[00:15:15] All that kind of information as well.

[00:15:17] You can reach out to us.

[00:15:19] Like accessibility is a really big.

[00:15:21] It's a big thing for the team, but it's a very big thing for me personally as well.

[00:15:26] So you can reach out to people.

[00:15:30] Members of the team or you can just go in through the website itself

[00:15:34] and kind of either do your own thing at home

[00:15:36] and then we can send it in or upload it

[00:15:40] or come to our sessions.

[00:15:43] We've got some booked in the Southampton area.

[00:15:47] You can come and talk to us at Isle of Wight Pride,

[00:15:50] where you'll be there with our big National Institute of Health Research bus,

[00:15:55] which we're going to glam up like nobody's business.

[00:15:59] So you can come and talk to us there.

[00:16:01] We're also going to be at the New Forest Pride as well.

[00:16:07] I'm going to be floating about Portsmouth Pride

[00:16:10] with Beyond Reflections.

[00:16:11] I'm going to be annoying them for a couple of hours during the day.

[00:16:14] So if anyone wants to talk to me then as well, they can do.

[00:16:18] So, yeah, just reach out to us.

[00:16:20] We're sharing all the information and stuff on social media.

[00:16:23] But if anyone thinks I'm looking at this, I don't know what to do.

[00:16:27] What can I expect when I get there?

[00:16:29] Just email one of us or message through social media

[00:16:33] and we can get in contact with you in whatever way makes it easiest for you.

[00:16:37] And we can let you know what the room looks like,

[00:16:39] how many people might be there,

[00:16:41] you know that kind of thing because I know that's

[00:16:43] that's a really big important thing for us.

[00:16:47] I know we're doing a session at October Books in Southampton,

[00:16:53] which is an accessible building accessible for wheelchair users.

[00:16:57] So yeah, so find us, reach out.

[00:17:01] We'll let you know what's going on.

[00:17:03] And as you say, it's for anybody at any stage of the process and partners as well.

[00:17:07] Because I think that's sometimes that's misunderstood.

[00:17:10] That's neglected isn't it?

[00:17:11] That the life experience of having been at the side of somebody else

[00:17:15] or a partner or a close relative who's experienced that.

[00:17:18] Because obviously as a trans person, you can be somewhat

[00:17:22] you can end up with a sort of peculiar dynamic, can't you?

[00:17:25] When you're when you're working with a partner who has cancer.

[00:17:28] And I mean, I think that's quite interesting to unpack

[00:17:30] because I just talked to a trans person earlier had gone through that exact process

[00:17:34] and it seemed quite excluded as almost their views didn't come

[00:17:38] because they were trans yet their partner had cancer.

[00:17:40] And I think it's again, it's all about

[00:17:44] it's all about making a tangible change in the in the actual environment.

[00:17:48] Isn't it so people get better care?

[00:17:50] Yeah, 100 percent.

[00:17:51] And just to add to your point actually

[00:17:53] because we have spoken about this before

[00:17:55] is, you know, if people want to bring someone with them

[00:18:01] a personal assistant, assistant dogs we would have to look into

[00:18:05] where we're going and stuff like that.

[00:18:07] I want to bring a partner, friend, whatever that is.

[00:18:09] Yeah, completely and utterly fine by us

[00:18:11] because what we're talking about, you know, you might need support with

[00:18:14] and that's exactly fine.

[00:18:16] Yeah, and of course we'll pick up anybody afterwards

[00:18:18] in our own membership programme who is affected

[00:18:22] by whatever meetings they have as well.

[00:18:23] So everyone has a proper sort of caring wrap around

[00:18:27] to make sure everybody's nurtured and finds the experience is positive.

[00:18:30] But I'm guessing it's going to be quite positive

[00:18:32] and uplifting at the end of the day

[00:18:33] because actually it's a sense that we're contributing

[00:18:36] to some proactive change, Stevie.

[00:18:38] I mean, that's part of this, isn't it?

[00:18:40] Absolutely.

[00:18:41] I think it's really important to us that we try to

[00:18:45] we try to have people sort of leaving the workshops as happy

[00:18:50] and like you say, feeling as positive as possible.

[00:18:53] And I really do think we achieved that with the pilot project.

[00:18:56] Even though it's a really difficult subject,

[00:18:58] it's really difficult sometimes.

[00:19:01] And say there weren't times where there were, you know,

[00:19:04] tears and emotions and things like that.

[00:19:06] But I think we had so many people at the end

[00:19:09] sort of saying I was really nervous to come.

[00:19:10] I felt like it was going to sort of drag things up

[00:19:13] or you know, I didn't know if I'd feel comfortable to speak

[00:19:15] or lots of different things.

[00:19:18] But so many people at the end were just,

[00:19:20] can we do this again?

[00:19:20] Please, can we do this again?

[00:19:22] You know, come back. Can we come back?

[00:19:23] Can we do, you know, and actually felt really, really lovely

[00:19:27] and I think it's really important.

[00:19:30] We don't just stick to the topic of cancer all the time.

[00:19:33] People talk about themselves, their lives, just who they are.

[00:19:36] We just chat about what's going on, you know, whatever.

[00:19:41] So I think that's really important to us as well,

[00:19:43] that it's just an enjoyable experience as much as possible.

[00:19:46] Yeah, so just on the subject of us going back to groups

[00:19:50] or being welcome back to groups and stuff,

[00:19:52] that's the nice thing about this as well is that it's not

[00:19:56] necessarily a short term project.

[00:19:58] So it's going to similar following on from

[00:20:03] there's a wider whatever it takes,

[00:20:05] McMillan project going on,

[00:20:07] which is a long term project of basically talking

[00:20:11] with different marginalised and oppressed groups

[00:20:14] to see how we can affect really good change in cancer services.

[00:20:18] So what's happened with the disability project is

[00:20:21] we spoke to all these amazing people,

[00:20:23] they gave us all these insights,

[00:20:25] they really shared some really powerful stuff with us

[00:20:28] and we did loads of things with that last year.

[00:20:30] We went to the houses of parliament

[00:20:32] to talk with the all party parliamentary group on cancer,

[00:20:35] but now actually we're going back to these groups to say,

[00:20:38] okay so we've got an idea of what all of our experiences might be,

[00:20:42] but what does this look like in practice

[00:20:44] to make resources and work with NHS and other healthcare providers

[00:20:48] to actually make things more appropriate?

[00:20:50] And I have a feeling that that's what's going to happen

[00:20:52] with the trans plus group as well.

[00:20:54] So it's not, you know, there's a longevity to it

[00:20:58] which is really important I think.

[00:21:02] And so if there was something that you needed from

[00:21:04] people that might listen to this,

[00:21:06] it's come and join in,

[00:21:08] any other support help that you need?

[00:21:14] You see it on social media, live, comment, tell your friends.

[00:21:19] Yeah.

[00:21:20] Or if you're in the south and you can provide a space,

[00:21:24] that's something that we're always looking for.

[00:21:26] We've got a few places in mind

[00:21:28] but we'd love to expand on that.

[00:21:30] So if there's a space where we could hold a workshop,

[00:21:32] that would be really wonderful as well.

[00:21:34] I'm imagining you're coming into our space, are you?

[00:21:38] We are.

[00:21:40] Excellent.

[00:21:42] Right. Okay. Well, that sounds absolutely amazing.

[00:21:44] Maybe you could pop back at some stage

[00:21:46] and tell us how it's going.

[00:21:48] Yes please.

[00:21:50] And before the end, because obviously it's sometimes quite nice to hear

[00:21:54] how it's been going, sometimes the uplifting side,

[00:21:56] but also some of the things that you're learning

[00:21:58] as you go along and how you're adjusting the process,

[00:22:01] because I think that's the point of the significance of

[00:22:06] your part of this camera isn't it?

[00:22:08] It's actually how is the project itself

[00:22:10] being redefined as you get under the surface of the community?

[00:22:14] Absolutely.

[00:22:16] These projects always evolve, you always learn.

[00:22:18] Every day, every meeting, there's something new coming out,

[00:22:22] there's something we're learning and it does evolve.

[00:22:24] Toastie, at the beginning you have this vision

[00:22:26] of what something is going to look like

[00:22:28] and it absolutely never is how it ends up being

[00:22:30] and that's absolutely wonderful.

[00:22:32] Because like we said, we've got so many different

[00:22:34] creative people in the team, people with different expertise

[00:22:38] that can bring something different.

[00:22:40] So absolutely, it grows and it's really exciting.

[00:22:44] And I think we've got so many members of the team

[00:22:46] that would love to come on and chat more about that

[00:22:48] and definitely update you as the workshops begin

[00:22:50] and we can actually sort of share what we're finding

[00:22:53] and how it's going.

[00:22:55] Wait, well that's absolutely brilliant.

[00:22:57] So Lynx will be in the notes, I got there at the end.

[00:23:04] Ways of joining in will be on social media

[00:23:06] and all sorts of places across our site but also across yours.

[00:23:09] That's all to put together on this

[00:23:11] because I think it sounds a brilliant way

[00:23:13] both to affect the quality of the research itself

[00:23:15] but also the quality of care further on down the line.

[00:23:18] I love the idea that the research itself

[00:23:20] could be informed by our own community.

[00:23:22] I think that's such a powerful thing for us to bear in mind.

[00:23:25] So Katie, thanks so much for joining us today.

[00:23:29] Any closing thoughts?

[00:23:31] Too many, too many.

[00:23:33] If it doesn't sound really strange

[00:23:35] because we are talking about cancer

[00:23:37] and we are talking about cancer services

[00:23:39] I cannot wait to meet people

[00:23:41] from a very personal point of view as well.

[00:23:43] I've not really been in that many rooms

[00:23:45] where there's lots of trans people.

[00:23:47] So from a really personal point of view

[00:23:49] that's going to be really lifting to me

[00:23:52] if that doesn't sound...

[00:23:54] So yeah, I'm so excited to be here

[00:23:57] because that doesn't sound...

[00:23:59] So yeah, I'm excited to get started basically.

[00:24:02] Great. Any final thoughts from you, Stephen?

[00:24:05] No, the same really.

[00:24:07] I'm excited to get these workshops started

[00:24:09] and I think also just to...

[00:24:11] I don't know if we've really talked about

[00:24:13] Beyond Reflections role in the project

[00:24:15] but I think it's just...

[00:24:17] We're very shy as you know so we'll come to that in another time.

[00:24:19] Okay, okay.

[00:24:21] Yeah, just to say

[00:24:23] Beyond Reflections have been a wonderful support

[00:24:25] and we're really glad to have you involved.

[00:24:27] Thank you.

[00:24:29] We absolutely behind you 100%.

[00:24:31] So well look, next time

[00:24:33] we'll hear about progress and what's been going on

[00:24:35] I can't wait to hear from us.

[00:24:37] So thank you so much to the pair of you for joining me today

[00:24:39] and we'll be speaking again I hope very soon.

[00:24:43] Thank you for having us.

[00:24:45] You take care. Bye.

[00:24:47] Thanks for listening to this episode of Transvox.

[00:24:53] It's been a joy to have you with us.

[00:24:55] If you want to make contact with us

[00:24:58] you can contact us at

[00:25:00] gillianarttransvox.co.uk

[00:25:03] and if you'd like to support the work we do

[00:25:05] please go to Patreon

[00:25:07] and go to page transvox

[00:25:09] and all of our money goes to our nominated charity

[00:25:12] and Jen, you've chosen the charity

[00:25:14] for the next number of episodes

[00:25:16] which one have you chosen?

[00:25:18] Our charity is called Beyond Reflections

[00:25:20] which is a charity that provides support

[00:25:23] and counselling to trans people, non binary people

[00:25:26] and their friends and their families across the UK

[00:25:29] an amazing charity doing some amazing work

[00:25:31] really important so please if you can give.

[00:25:34] Great and if you want to go and have a look at Beyond Reflections

[00:25:37] it's beyond-reflections.org.uk

[00:25:40] but as I say if you'd like to make a contribution

[00:25:43] to what we're doing because we love to help the people who help us

[00:25:46] again if you've got ideas for the show

[00:25:49] if you'd like to ask us questions, comments, applause

[00:25:52] or brickbaths feel free to send it all into gillianarttransvox.co.uk

[00:25:58] until the next time, goodbye!