Transvox Season Two Kickoff: Exclusion Policies, NHS Care, and Community Pushback

[00:00:06] Hello and welcome back to Transvox, and hello Jenny, who's sitting resplendent in front of me in her rainbow flag combo, which I've seen you in before, Jenny, but it's still very fetching. I'm getting ahead for Pride Month in June, we're not far off it, so it's good. Hey, long time no speak, I think.

[00:00:30] I was just going to say, we did Season One, which ended up being 135 episodes, and so this is the first episode of Season Two. Is that what we're terming it? That's what we're saying, so I've been on holiday in a way and such a new being. Are we pretending we've got structure to it, Gill? Is that what we're doing? That's it, no pretense. This is a highly professional enterprise. Except it's not professional, highly or an enterprise. But apart from that, it's great.

[00:00:58] Look, we've got a lot to catch up on. So I think what we're going to do today is going to skip through quite a few of the sort of big stories over the last two or three months. And then we can get back to our regular sort of gossip and deep diving into a range of different news stories. We've got lots of listeners' questions to catch up on, so we'll have to have a special episode on that. And so there you are. So I'm going to start the role, start, what's it called? Roll with the ball?

[00:01:24] That's it. That's it. That's it. And I'm going to go all the way back to February, where the story was really gathering place with the Women's Institute closing branches as members were resigning over the trans ban. And that's actually continued to this date. It's been quite a fascinating sort of process, hasn't it? I think this is the direct upshot of the Supreme Court judgment, which was about organisations.

[00:01:51] And it's similar to her. I guess it's similar to what's happened in the guides as well, hasn't it? Where organisations and my memory is that the WI embraced trans inclusion quite early on. They were quite themselves pretty progressive in doing that quite early.

[00:02:09] And then because of the fallout from the horrendous Supreme Court judgment, the cruel, this is absolutely cruel, they felt pressured as organisations to make these decisions. So basically they're expelling people from their clubs and organisations. And I'm sure there are people who have made friends or WI clubs that have embraced their women who are trans.

[00:02:38] And they're now being told they've got to, you know, you're not welcome anymore. And I think that's the cruelty of that. Taking aside your views on trans equality, it's so saddening. And the same, I think, in Girl Guides, where I think those young trans people who've been able to join the Girl Guides, I think it's from this autumn, they're going to be asked to stop. And these people have made friends. People have made friends in these organisations. It doesn't just hit the individual people. It's so cruel and unnecessary.

[00:03:07] It actually goes against the rights of children as well, when you think about it, because children have a right to be able to join these things. Even if you have ascribed to the idea of biological sex as a thing, which, you know, the fact is that none of the sexual side of biology is really in evidence at the age of five, six, seven, eight, when Girl Guiding and, you know, cubs and brownies are around. So it's clearly not about that. That's what the TERFs do. When they talk about young people, they inappropriately sexualise young people.

[00:03:37] It's what their arguments inevitably have to fall on. This is what, again, the sort of nonsense of their standpoints, right? There was no problems with Girl Guiding excepting trans girls. There was never any issues. Nobody – there was no demonstratable risk. There was no demonstratable risk. Same with the Women's Institute. Both ends of the age spectrum, you might think.

[00:04:01] And because of the successful organising of TERFs, of gender-critical people, we're cruelly expelling people for nobody's benefit whatsoever other than the ideology of bigots. Yeah. And I mean, talk about ideology of bigots. And I think there was a pushback this month with the pool in – Oh, I read that. That was a good one.

[00:04:31] Yeah, there was – When was it again? It was in London, isn't it? Hampstead Heath or something? Open-air swimming pool that have women-only days and there'd been trans inclusion. And I think – did it go to court and then they lost? They were successful in defending their case, but what they've had to do is spend a million quid on improving bathroom facilities and such like.

[00:04:53] But actually, you know, they have access for trans men in the male-only places and vice versa. And of course, it's this constant, as you would call it – well, it's a constant – Yeah. And it was interesting that they actually talked very explicitly about trans men. And I thought it was quite interesting. Yeah. And again, you know, something – so something for all of us when we transition, one of the things is –

[00:05:22] and no, absolutely nobody transitions to gain access to women-only swimming events. It's such an inherent nonsense. But also, it's – I remember when I first had put up the courage post-transition to start going swimming in the local swimming baths. I don't think I attended women-only sessions, but there was mixed – it was shared changing rooms and, you know, single-sex showering facilities. And I was – but it wasn't that what I was thinking about.

[00:05:50] I was just so nervous about being seen in a swimming costume when people would figure out my gender history. And it's really exposing. And I was so proud to have started to do that in swimming. Never had any problems. Went along with my friends as well. Nobody ever made a complaint. This is sort of 2008 or 2009, something around that. Do you know what I mean? And it was never an issue.

[00:06:15] And I was – it was one thing I was so proud of myself, just to overcome, as a big woman anyway, that – be able to do that. And then now we've got a situation. There's not a chance I would have the confidence to do that now. And so, yeah, these things are not solving any problem that exists, but just imposing cruelty on people that are just trying to live their lives. And you might think, oh, what, going to a swimming pool? What's the big deal in that?

[00:06:42] But these little things, when you transition, are important to you, these stepping stones. The fact that the inclusion is more than the thing itself. Does that make sense? I think it's interesting because I was working at a trans charity and was very keen on launching trans-only safe swimming spaces. Something happening in Manchester and different places. And I think that's a relief, isn't it, to have those sorts of places. Because whilst it's okay being brave and facing up to it sometimes, it's just easier to go swimming with your posse.

[00:07:11] I think there's two aspects of it to me. You're absolutely right. To be able to participate and feel safe. So to be able to have trans support groups like that. But also the other thing for me was the validation of, not the swimming itself, of doing something that all other women are doing. And it makes me feel as all other women. It's just going along swimming and using the women's facilities. It wasn't about, it was, that was the thing I was most proud of.

[00:07:40] Because I learnt how to swim and how to swim. And it was, and the exercise is good. But it was just feeling that when I always felt, still do to the day, I've always felt, do I ever really fit in? And the fact that I could do that and fit in made me so proud. And that wouldn't be the case if I transition now. I don't think I'd have the strength to do that. Because I don't find it easy going swimming anymore. And I've never been a great swimmer, not been interested.

[00:08:08] But even belonging to a private sports club, they don't, I wouldn't go swimming in their private swimming pool. Which is such a shame. It's not, because for me it wasn't the swimming itself. It was the being included. And I think some of the things as well as, some of the thing I think is, I don't know what the policy is that the health club I was in. And actually I didn't want to go into the swimming pool in case actually it forced them into decision to actually then make it exclusionary. I think that's interesting. I want to come back to puberty blockers, but February the 27th was quite an interesting day.

[00:08:38] Because too many things happened that day. But Hannah the plumber was suddenly sprang to the floor. From the glorious green party. Yes. Glorious green party. Our glorious saviors. Also a trans woman was told she's not allowed to play cricket for fun. And I thought that was a very interesting thing. An amateur cricketer wasn't allowed to play cricket with a women's team for fun. And that I found really, I mean, forget all the nonsense about sport.

[00:09:06] But that is, and I know the chess thing has been re-done as well. It just is so pathetic, isn't it, at every level. But is this similar to the stuff for the WI, which is fun and recreation, right? Is it, if the club is a, seen as a, is this where we're going? If the club is seen as a women's cricket club, that trans people can be excluded for that. Even though it's not a competitive, it's not about competitive. It's not about the sport argument, which is a different argument.

[00:09:34] It's just about the cruelty of exclusion for no good reason. It's the thing about, it's the thing about following the law, isn't it? Yeah, but the law is cruel. The law is exclusion and the law is wrong. The law is not, and actually it isn't the law because the Supreme Court judgment was never about banning people from anything other than a health board in Scotland. It was never about this.

[00:09:58] It's become about this because people with transphobic views have seized upon it and used it like this. I think that's, I think that's the tragedy of it. There was a bunch of stuff around puberty blockers. I think it's just worth touching on a few different headlines here because it brings back our old friend Diddley-Doo Cass.

[00:10:18] And she took part in an interesting debate, which I actually think I heard when she talked about the fact that children have been weaponised by both sides of the trans debate. And actually the Northern Ireland were linked into the puberty blockers thing. And actually the puberty blockers were completely made inaccessible because an NHS trial had been paused. And I think now it's been accepted that basically the NHS have said they've got no problem with the cast.

[00:10:47] They've got a problem with the cast report about everything else but the puberty blockers. So that's allowed them to say most of what is in the cast report was wrong, but they're still not going to bring the puberty blocker thing back. And I think we've seen an uptick in a young person's suicide and self-harm and such like from this. It's not a surprise, is it? It's what everybody knew all along. The cast report, we've talked about it before. Yeah. I think you've said to me, our biggest ever listenership was on the cast report. Yeah. The most damaging, one of those most damaging.

[00:11:16] And it's been used and I think it's been touted around the world and other countries, isn't it? They've referenced the cast report because somehow, because you endow one person with such, effectively just endow one person with such power, and nobody questions whether they're right or not, even though it's been peer reviewed to death as being unscientific and wrong, both in this country and abroad, right? But because it's a government report, it's just given credibility and media don't challenge it.

[00:11:46] But you're absolutely right. I think there's lots of the other stuff in it, which was clearly unsphobic. But then I remember that interview, the nonsense of saying it's been weaponised by both sides. There's no both sides in it. There's trans people who want to live their lives and families who want to live their lives and support their kids. And there's people who hate trans people. That's what it boils down to. It's not a two-side thing. It's like saying Ukraine's been weaponised by being invaded. They were invaded.

[00:12:15] We're not the aggressors in any of this. So when people say, oh, both sides have weaponised children, no, you've weaponised children by attacking them, their lives, and trying to make their lives harder. I hate that sort of both sides language. It's not two sides. There's a side with power and there's a side without power. And that's our community. And I think what also happened was that 16 and 17 year olds were banned from accessing hormones as well. Yeah.

[00:12:44] From a certain decision. And really what's going on here is the movement in the National Health Service to, and NHRA, and at the top of it, Wes Streeting, who is openly consulting with anti-trans groups now, to create an issue where the very best of the NHS who simply want to give good service, they're not allowed to actually help trans people. And I think there's a lot of people in a very invidious position in the National Health Service.

[00:13:09] The NHS, as somebody who lives and breathes the NHS, and I'm not saying there aren't issues around, and there certainly is issues with healthcare. The NHS does not want to treat trans people the way that the Cass report, the way that the politics wants to, the way the Supreme Court, they do not want to. They want to treat people right and keep people well and healthy. And the Cass report has failed to do that.

[00:13:35] But it's always interesting to see allies, and we always talk about allies, and we always want to credit their work. And it was interesting that Olly Alexander, is it Olly Alexander, who really called out the Labour Party on their anti-LGBT views and transphobic views? Your friend Hannah the Plumber, who actually spoke at a, on International Women's Day, spoke at a rally, and had to be taken away by being threatened by anti-trans people.

[00:14:00] Yeah, so attacked by some rabid, middle-aged transphobe. Just awful. The Green Party, Zach Polanski, has taken, the leader has taken explicit support for trans people. He's not going to shy away from the argument. And then same for, so there are, it's good to see that parts of politics are able to double down. So it reminds me of what's happened in America as well, with some of the now resurgent, progressive, more left-parts,

[00:14:30] of the Democrat Party, who are prepared to say, to not throw trans people under the bus. Mamdani in New York has refused to play that game. And I see that sometimes in the Greens as well, where the Labour Party are just craving and the cowardice. My union, I think at the moment, I might be right on this. So we send delegations in our union to the Labour Party conference. And when you have a Labour Party conference, two days, the first two days of the Labour Party Women's Conference,

[00:14:58] in the same sort of same venue, I went to Liverpool. So I've attended Labour Party Women's Conference as a delegate from Unison. The Labour Party has stated that trans women are no longer invited to the Women's Conference. They don't have to do that. They've done that. And my union, the largest union of women in Europe, made a million plus women. We are now, my understanding, not taking part in a Labour Party Women's Conference because they're excluding some of our members.

[00:15:28] So I understand that. It's also interesting. There's an app that trans actually, I think, talked a lot about this idea of the National Health Service and capitalising to anti-trans, very well-funded anti-trans rhetoric and the same with the BBC. And I think as Olly Alexander did, part of that massive concert that was done for Not A Face and to the Good Law Project as well, who've, again, fantastic allies, particularly Good Law, who have been fighting on behalf of, not always fighting in the most strategic way, but certainly fighting as much as they can.

[00:15:58] It's interesting just about how well-futtened that far into the Good Law Project. I've listened to some of the discourse about the reboot of Harry Potter on TV, right? And some actors have been criticised for taking parts in that. And probably these aren't necessarily anti-trans people. And they've been saying, I can separate her views of what I'm doing. But the argument that really hit with me is because of what J.K. Rowling does,

[00:16:24] she actively lobbies and uses money and power organising legal cases. It's my understanding. She has a fund that helps legal cases against trans equality, right? So if you are helping to fund her in any way, you are effectively helping to fund people who are explicitly... And that's different than going, oh, she said some things on Twitter once, but we don't agree with it. You're actively doing that. Because that's the one thing about her that you don't...

[00:16:54] About all the trans people who have made comments in the past, she's actively, or certainly day in, day out this last few years, been a powerful lobby to make her life's worth by using her wealth to do that. Now, Ed, that's interesting you say that, because I think we're both fans of the Rest is Politics podcast. And, well... Yeah, I like the podcast. I don't always agree with them. Yes. What are two interesting things?

[00:17:21] One, which is that J.K. Rowling attacked them because they'd invited her to attend. And she refused saying that for all sorts of reasons. And suggesting that four women Scotland attended it. That's right, yeah. She said they want them... She wants them to invite a prominent anti-trans hate group. So what was interesting, they had the trans person from Delaware in the States, whose name completely escapes me. Oh, um... McBride. Sarah McBride. Yeah, Congresswoman. Yeah. Yeah, they had a complete episode with her, which was really interesting.

[00:17:51] I'd love to... Oh, I'm going to watch that. The cruelty of which they... Do you ever watch... It's so cringe. Do you know how... It feels so cringe when you watch Congress and the way she's referred to, because the congressional lead, the speaker of the Congress, insists on referring to her as gentlemen. And it is so utterly nonsense to see her and him to do that. It is... The cruelty of it is terrible, but the nonsense,

[00:18:19] it makes them look a complete idiot to do that. Have you ever seen her being referred to? Oh, yeah. I remember sitting in a committee meeting and she referred to the male chair as Madam Chair. Yeah, and I think some of the Democrats have pushed back on it and stuff, but it also shows the ridiculousness of their standpoint, because even if you don't... Even if you think trans people are weird, whatever, people deliberately... Trans women as a gentleman is so weird

[00:18:48] and intellectually weird. I think she's... I'm not sure I'm fully on with her politics. I think she's quite a centrist Democrat, and I have a problem with centrist Democrats. The Democrats are the equivalent of the Tory party, really, are they? Yeah, the centrist one. There are some... Of the Labour Party. It's like Labour Party, isn't it? But as a person, I've got to admire it. And in fact, she stood up against this abuse with grace. Absolutely. I'm definitely going to seek that one out. Yeah, it's definitely a good lesson. Yeah, you should do.

[00:19:17] Worth a look. It's nothing you wouldn't expect to hear, but it was interesting to hear two cis-heteronormative white men attempting to listen and understand and be sensitive about the subject area. Because I think they're probably not instinctively... Look, they're both socially liberal, I would have... Alistair Campbell and Rory Stewart, aren't they? The ones that's quite a liberal Tory and Alistair Campbell notoriously was part of the Labour government. I think with Alistair Campbell, it's his daughter's had an influence, hasn't it? I think his daughter,

[00:19:47] he talks about this. As a certain generation, my instinct is getting some influence of that of being more progressive in outlook. I hope they treated it with respect. I hope they really did. No, I recommend it. Going back to the NHS for a second, which is always one of my favourite subjects, but I'm a person that uses the private health service because of energy you say that. But now the NHS have actually started saying they won't be dealing with a lot of the private. They didn't anyway, but they're officially saying that they're really getting rid of shared care agreements

[00:20:16] with people like Gender GP, which you always had, and healthcare and Gender Plus, who were always seen as the sort of gold standard in terms of trials care. And I think one of the commentaries that was said was, so they're claiming that patient safety isn't proven by denying treatment. I think it's a real, I didn't get shared care, never had it, didn't expect it because I know what was going on. I was told clearly by my doctor they were interested. But it's becoming now to be policy.

[00:20:45] And I think I haven't got an NHS that's capable of providing. The last thing you should be doing is in the private sector. The private, you know, trans people in the UK spend a lot of money and it just always staggers me that they forget the economic benefit of actually. Oh no, it's an absolute nonsense. And I have a colleague who is a GP in one of our staff networks. And I think I might see if she'll come on a pod and have a talk about shared care. I had a really interesting conversation. Effectively, most GPs have been bullied

[00:21:14] that I'm doing shared care because they've been told they haven't got the competence to do it. So therefore they can't do it. But it is a nonsense. I know of a case in Staffordshire of a trans patient that had, oh, we can discuss it in a future pod, but had put herself at risk having to look for health work to fund private care because there was no shared care. And that had impacted on her mental health and made the person an inpatient potentially. And that will happen again. So if you don't do this, you're creating more work, more money, less efficiency

[00:21:43] for the NHS as a whole because people are ending up as inpatients because of this. That's the whole nonsense of it as well, just for the sake of a tablet that costs absolutely nothing that nobody is prepared to prescribe. It's crazy. good news. And I think, I was very pleased by this as a big fan of Marks and Spencer's, but they went through that hoo-ha. We actually talked about the Marks and Spencer's experience on a different pod. But they really pushed back after the sex matters thing and said, no,

[00:22:13] we do welcome trans people. They're allowed to use our spaces and they're not, having trans people is not creating a hostile environment. It's not a hostile environment for staff to work with places. They have, operate, they operate unisex fitting rooms and that policy, they always did that and that policy has not changed. So I think the fact that they've come out and said it, because places like Marks and Spencer are usually so careful about what they say. But I think that was quite encouraging. I have to say it was a bit of a relief

[00:22:42] because I'm a bit of a Marks and Spencer fan that did, it's been a relief to start going back then shopping there. Hooray! You've gone quiet. Oh, sorry. I just might cut out then for a minute. Yeah, no, that's, yeah, and that's a brilliant turnaround, Jill. And I'm so pleased for you can embrace M&S. I do get a bit of M&S. I am very cheap at heart. There you go. The good M&S because they do that thing where they, because all, all bloomin's clothes

[00:23:12] sizes are different, but M&S are a little bit more generous than the standards. So it's nice to think that you're going in and you're using it. We need to have, we need to have those stores and those inclusive and safe space balls. The difference to me, I don't know, a shop called Evans had, as a bigger woman, as a bigger woman, I used to have a shop at Evans. And I started buying, and there was an Evans in Newcastle-under-Lyme, I don't know if it's still there now, I used to go in there regularly, and they were so lovely, the staff, they knew me,

[00:23:41] and I'd go in there not dressed at times, but if I was out, if I was out at work and before I transitioned, and I'd go in there and they would talk, they would help me, give me some advice. They were so lovely, and those people in Hanley, it was Hanley and Newcastle-under-Lyme-Evans, it's really made an impact on my ability to transition and confidence just by caring a bit, never cause anybody any problems. And now, if ever, grateful for those people who did that, I became, I was a regular,

[00:24:11] right, because I've got no, when you transition, you've got no clothes really much other than a few things you've got that you wouldn't wear outside sort of thing, and you're starting to have to build up a wardrobe, and the fact that M&S could provide that for trans people, that it could be a feel safe space for them to go in, because it's intimidating, isn't it, when you first go clothes shopping after transition, it's, yeah, not even just, not even after just transitioning, it is, it's always nice they're going with somebody else, isn't it, but that's where most people go

[00:24:41] with other people. Yeah, okay, let's pop on to the next one. Now, the next thing I'm going to say is going to open up two or three different cans of worms, so let's pick them off. So, I'm going to say that there's a new chair of Stonewall who has absolutely put her foot in it around J.K. Rowling and has caused a bit of a storm of noise. I just wondered what your view was on that. Oh, I don't know, you'll have to remind me some of the details because I couldn't recall exactly what it was she said. So basically,

[00:25:10] Kezia Dugdale is the new chair of Stonewall and basically said that Rowling's entitled to her rights, entitled to her views and such like, and basically they're entitled to their views, they can say what they want and such like and basically, I'm just trying to look for a quote. Basically, the thing is, what she didn't do is come out and say what J.K. Rowling has said about the trans community is wrong. She said, it's okay really. Everyone has a view, don't they? And our priorities now are focused on things like justice for military veterans,

[00:25:40] compensation for what they've endured and a ban and conversion therapy but actually talking less about trans people so there's this overt sort of talking less about it and of course then the trans community went ballistic as you can imagine and she's obviously come back and what's the word back on some of her views? Yeah, I think she used the phrase at one point deep, huge respect and yeah, I guess what she was trying to say is people have views but, or whatever, that's really clumsy and she's had to apologise.

[00:26:11] It is extraordinary to think of that because as I spoke about earlier, J.K. Rowling is actively working to make trans people's lives worse. That's objectively true. She's using her power and money to make our lives worse and the lives of people in the LGBTQ plus community that Stonewall serve, it is an extraordinary thing for her to say that. You transpose that to any other area of a charity that's supporting vulnerable communities and go in,

[00:26:41] they're allowed to have views and respect for that yet they're harm in us. It's an extraordinary thing, it's an extraordinary gaffe to have made. Yeah, really poor and to bring someone into a community like ours or into the whole LGBT plus community and not even have that basic understanding is actually saying I've met J.K. Rowling. To be fair, Doug Taylor's come back and they apologise for those statements but what it shows is that... Well, I apologise for the hurt. Yeah. I always think that's an apology

[00:27:11] for the hurt but the point is if you're leading a charity that's been the foremost and I know how much Stonewall put into trans inclusion once they became a trans inclusion charity... once they joined the fight. Yeah, once they joined the fight and they were brilliant on it. They were brilliant. They made mistakes but they were brilliant and steadfast and for a new chair to not read the room and understand that this person has caused more harm for trans people in the UK than anybody else

[00:27:40] in history. Right? You can't deny that's a fact that the power she has with the platform she has but very well you can... I guess you can admire her for that she is a working class person she wrote Harry Potter books and made herself the biggest author in the world. You can admire that but you can never forget... You always need to caveat this person's doing tangible harm week in, week out. Now, April 27th. Oh.

[00:28:10] I don't know if you... Actually, I do know the answer to this because we talked about it but I remember years ago going to Pink Punters and Milton Keynes and it was... Oh yes! It was a place I remember in industry around the BNO the big night out for transvestites and cross-dressers and people who were interested and a lot of it was about people experimenting coming out there was a sexual element as well of course there always is in these things but it was a place where a lot of trans people used to come together and of course

[00:28:40] there was a fire which has now been ruled accidental which is good because they'll get their insurance but it is and they're committed to rebuilding but that was a real tragedy losing all that Pink Punters wasn't it? I was quite sad about it. I was devastated because as somebody that hasn't really ever socialised in LGBT venues just because I don't socialise much at all right? One of the few things I did is I went I visited the Pink Punters Milton Keynes across the road I think we all stayed in the travel lodge across the road

[00:29:10] and these are people I'd met on blogs I had transitioned at that point I was living my life so I wasn't needing it to go to somewhere to be but it was where a community of friends I'd found on blogs back in the day we decided to meet up and go there and we all travelled down and it was a great night I've still got some pictures somewhere and I just knew how important that one venue was to the whole of the trans community going back decades really there's lots of

[00:29:39] trans positive venues and I think there's places that people go I think Leeds has a big one where people go as well Pink Punters and Milton Keynes was just so beloved of that community to go and I had a great night just meeting with the community which I hadn't got in Stoke-on-Trent and I was devastated when I saw that building it's an old I don't know if it's an old building it was a timber-framed building it was a dump wasn't it

[00:30:07] it was a dump it was a dump in many ways but it was our dump it was for us yes it was the whole LGBTQ plus community but particularly for trans people it was one where I don't know anybody of a certainly anywhere near our generation who doesn't know of Milton Keynes and probably hasn't been there at one point in time there's it was and it's good to hear it wasn't a hate crime in that respect because obviously that's your first worry

[00:30:36] on whether it ever gets rebuilt but it was yeah it was tragedy I had a great weekend there and then went to Bletchley Park Code Breaking Museum the crossover the crossover between trans people and computer geekery was evident there because a whole bunch of us went and visited the computer museum at Bletchley Park but I was really upset when I read it like you Jill so you'd visit it a few times had you or yeah I went there oh I can't I've been there a few times yeah

[00:31:05] and I used to work in Milton Keynes a lot and it was a place there was a very vibrant trans community in Milton Keynes oddly enough and it's a funny part of the country for maybe because of B&O being there it seems to be that there's a lot more trans inclusion of there I think they're bound to be we went because the local businesses are then visited we went to an Indian restaurant so the whole community the whole city which is a city now isn't it Milton Keynes but the whole place became

[00:31:35] more like places like Brighton even though it's stuck in the middle of the country because Pink Punters existed because of the scale of it it was heartbreaking to read that Jill glad you just to answer your question Milton Keynes was made a city in 2022 I didn't know that really so that was sad news I remember I used to know someone who was a very famous trans activist and you know that I'm famous for forgetting people's names so I can't mention the name but it was very

[00:32:05] famous in Milton Keynes and she brought together a bunch of services and I remember going up there and she introduced me to a colour stylist or a fashion stylist or whatever it was and it was a woman who helped trans people and what we did is we went shopping now by going shopping together was this she knew the bosses of TK Maxx and so I went to TK Maxx an hour before the shop opened on my own able to go through the shop oh how amazing I know because at the time I was obviously dressed as a boy

[00:32:34] and it was almost my first time how long ago is this then that's 10 20 years ago something like that now yeah it's progression isn't it that's this is the place it has in our communities and I think I wish there was somewhere it could have been marked because it appeared in the news because we're not clearly I don't think the news understood the impact it has on particularly the trans part of the LGBTQ plus community it definitely devastated the whole of the community but I think

[00:33:04] for trans people in particular it've held a place I think yeah the fact that I've been to it and I don't socialise anywhere says everything gosh I've got two slightly less exciting subjects to talk through but one is about I was really quite pleased about this I think the the High Court overturning the fine for the University of Sussex yes and the case which ruled I think in favour of Kathleen Stock

[00:33:34] and I think actually they've ruled in favour of the university haven't they yeah they have they've overturned so those universities my understanding I might have got this wrong Joe the university because they deplatformed they asked them not to attend the university it was a high to the the nuts anti-trans stuff about platforming people in universities stuff that you've seen in America as well you've seen a lot of this and they did this massive fine on the university because they didn't want an anti-trans bigot coming

[00:34:03] and speaking and upsetting some of the students right they were trying to protect trans students right and they said well you're not welcome here because your views are we they believed not conducive to that and they were fined well these are the free speech when you hear all the free speech nutters what there's also free speech in allowing who you want to

[00:34:50] the issue there's two issues one which is the views of but and of course the classic thing was the way that the investigation was carried out meant that the office of free speech or whoever it was hadn't interviewed all sides they never talked to the university about their perspective they only talked to them and that political thing about their views and it's this thing isn't it about when the cast review was done they didn't talk to trans campaigners they didn't talk to trans experts they only talk to the side that's going to give them

[00:35:20] the answer they're not interested in hearing our voice they're not interested in no so that brings us really almost up to date and really up to the mess which is the anniversary of the supreme court ruling and it was interesting because I read a quite interesting conversation right with bridget phillipson talking about the ehrc updated code does not apply to workplaces no it doesn't and it's really talk about something that's been a mess from the beginning and has

[00:35:50] actually become a as they say in the trailer buggers mud from time to time embarrassment to the ehrc yeah my instinct is the labour government have embarrassed because it's not been acted on the hrc produced that wasn't just the judgment the judgment was flawed i still believe the judgment was flawed but was narrow the hc jumped upon it because they would be led by gender critical views it seems not it seems the person who led it

[00:36:20] is now in the lords advocating for anti abortion rights as well now there you go like i said all the way through this has always been about you can go back to Trevor Phillips who appears on Sky who is an ex-leader of that who's also got very anti-progressive views from what i see become i think as an organisation on the face of it you think oh people in the uk think it's in some form of independence it's not

[00:36:49] and yeah it's never been about workplaces and yet the hrc told people they've got to stop people using workplace to lose and things like that and then court judgements overturned that view the whole well be imminently seeing some guidance and i don't know

[00:37:19] about you i don't really have an instinct about how terrible or watered down that guidance is going to be i think it's almost pointless commentating because actually it's all just it's like predicting a football result isn't it we have no idea no it could also be kicked into long touches with grass as well because it may well be the labour party you've got well it could have west street in power soon and that would be desperate for i think the chances of labour party membership electing west street is

[00:37:50] probably unlikely but certainly it would be a nail in the coffin for any LGBTQ particularly trans members in the Labour party not that there can be many left because I think I'm no longer a member because of their failure to recognise me as who I am so there has been swings and roundabouts wins and losses and it is

[00:38:30] there are new organisations that sprung up TFT who are really coming out there and making a bit of a noise and you got your old translucent and trans actual and people sort of trans solidarity alliance and sort of people who have become emboldened and you've got people like not a face who are getting lots of revenue and lots of good credibility and PR and such so it brought inevitably and

[00:39:00] you identified this very early that it made us be more cohesive as an activist community and has brought other people in I think the damage that's been done over the last few years is still tangible the damage to my mental health has been done by the way this country is damaging but we are seeing the overreach is going

[00:39:30] never solving a problem that was actually there and then like everything else people are starting to see the cruelty of some of what the anti-trans lobby are doing and don't really want a part of it so I

[00:40:01] report that the majority that many that the political party of choice of gay and bisexual men was reform oh that could easily be the case in terms of reform but because the media is not actually telling people what reform actually is what's extraordinary about reform is the complicity of the media so this thing recently about Nigel Fallage a leader having received millions of

[00:40:30] donations didn't declare if you compare that to Keir Starmer when he was criticised for receiving free glasses it is nonsense the fact is nobody is talking about the fact those people that are supporting that have probably forgotten or it's not been reported that he basically found the idea of two men kissing disgusting or something he said once he's clearly homophobic at heart in those sort of comments he made and the party is clearly it's not going to to our

[00:41:01] far I find interesting is that we don't know what he does think about anything because he's a very skilled operator who believes what he's I believe he's racist and transphobic he was given 10 million quid told to change his views he would he's funded by the tech bros now he's a grifter but he said those things earlier on you only have to look about how it was when you hear these reports of how he

[00:41:31] behaved at school and things right there's a little deep history there when you say you're right he would be prepared he's craving enough to pretend he's something he's not he pretends he's a man of the people when he's not he's a commodity trader right he's a grifter he's pretending of that but do I

[00:42:01] so be be careful so have crazy nuts isn't it that's been an interesting gallop and a bit of a catch up for our dear listener roller coaster isn't it everything else but yes we probably shouldn't take such long gaps in the future between seasons because we structured it that

[00:42:45] until the next one then great stuff yes speak to you soon see you everyone bye thanks for listening to this episode of transvox it's been a joy to have you with us if you want to make contact with us you can contact us at gillian transvox co dot uk and all of our money goes to our nominated charity and Jen you've chosen the charity for the next number of episodes which one have you chosen

[00:43:15] our charity is called beyond reflections which is a charity that provides support and counselling to trans people non-binary people and their friends and their families across the UK an amazing charity doing some amazing work really important so please if you can give great and if you want to go and have a look at beyond reflections it's beyond reflections dot org dot UK but as I say if you'd like to make a contribution to what we're doing because we love to help the people who help us again if you've got ideas

[00:43:44] for the show things you'd like to