Transvox - Trans Men - An Interview with Aaron

[00:00:00] Hi and welcome back to Transvox and a different sort of episode today and I'm joined by a guest. The guest is not Jenny, the guest actually is Aaron, Aaron's join me and for ages, Jenny and

[00:00:19] I have spent far too much time talking about Trans Men, Trans Women, Trans Men, all us non-binary things but we've never really had the chance to talk Trans Mask so I'm delighted to be joined today about Aaron who is going to tell us all about those things.

[00:00:36] So first of all, I, Aaron, how are you? Hi, I'm good, thank you. Now I'm good, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it seems strange to think that statistically there was many Trans Mask people as Trans Men but what, what, what's going on?

[00:00:53] Why do we never, why, why is the, why is the, why is the, where are you all? I think the main answer to that question is that as, in general men don't reach out to support

[00:01:09] and that as much as women and I think with Trans Masking in Individuals there is a bit more pressure for us to kind of fit in with society and blend more and a lot of the time, it's

[00:01:26] also easier sometimes because of the way the hormones work with us and the differences between Masking and feminine puberty, we can a lot of the time live under the radar and just let life go by sort of thing which is a big privilege definitely.

[00:01:45] So I'd say that's the main reason and you don't hear about us, we do generally live just under the radar, it must be heaven. It's, it's a blessing in a curse because it also means that we don't get the representation

[00:02:03] and our side of things is in talked about what I want. Man, maybe maybe let's start there, let's start with testosterone so rather than delving right back into your backstory in such like and doing this but tell me about what

[00:02:18] happens when you start the testosterone journey, what's it like? So testosterone is a very powerful moment, I would argue it's more powerful than estrogen. There's a big difference in energy levels, I'd say and it affects your mood,

[00:02:44] a lot more than you think it will for me personally I started on everyone, most people start on a type of testosterone called testosterone which is an injection that is given in to musculoskelete, normally every one to three weeks depending on the dose and depends on

[00:03:04] your doctor in the UK it's generally you start on every three weeks and you might go down two weeks whereas in America they tend to be on weekly injections or fortnightly injection

[00:03:15] and so on is a type of injection that you can administer yourself as well and most people do end up going on to self-administer on testosterone. However I couldn't really get on with it

[00:03:29] in the respective I had because I also have mental health issues, it was not mixing well with that and what was happening was I was going into kind of like a hypolymonic state for the first

[00:03:41] week after getting my injection and then I would level out for a week and then I would get the rest for a week before my injection was due so it was very much like an up, a middle and down

[00:03:54] section and it just wasn't working for me so I switched to a different type called nebedo which is another type of injection except for it's a insomuscular injection that is administered over a two to five minutes so it's a very thick consistency you have four meals of the

[00:04:20] testosterone that's drawn up and because it is so thick you have to use a 50 gauge needle which is the thickest needle you can get basically. It's consistent to like the width of

[00:04:34] ledge from the inside of a pencil the book is your book. Yes but to be honest if it's done correctly it doesn't hurt. They're supposed to use a technique called the Zad technique which

[00:04:46] is where they kind of put the needle in and then move it in the shape of a Zed so get into the muscle properly because it needs to go into my whole tissue and yeah they inject that very slowly

[00:04:59] over the course of two to five minutes and you only have to get that injection done once depending on how your body reacts to it it could be anywhere from ten to about four in the world.

[00:05:12] Yeah so I'm on every 13 weeks at the moment but my doctor at the genus clinic is said that I could move my dose if I wanted to if I wanted to go on a bit the lowest I could if I want

[00:05:24] to increase by another week then I could also do that. So I think what is nice is there a lot of the time it is within your control what you want your dosage to look like.

[00:05:39] So my and everyone's different my levels I run well on a slightly higher dose than the average because when my my doctor thought me to read my blood level as well because especially back

[00:05:55] then there wasn't a GP didn't understand how the blood was supposed to be read and that. So my doctor told me with my testosterone levels my trox level which is the level when it's

[00:06:07] about week or so prior to your injections due it should be about ten which is on the lower end of normal for a man and then at the peak level it should be up to 30 and around 30.

[00:06:22] My trox level at the moment is around 10 which is on the lower side of normal so that's why my doctor said like if you want you can increase and I've found that I do start getting

[00:06:37] not so much too many I don't know too many things but I get things like period pains come back near the end of my cycle as it were which is obviously unpleasant and uncomfortable.

[00:06:52] So yeah okay excuse me people yeah so that's interesting so let's separate at this all the cognitive and mental side and the physical for the moment so so from the moment you started

[00:07:03] taking testosterone in the in the way that worked for you physically what did you begin to notice. So there are a lot of changes but they they will happen at different stages so like my

[00:07:18] facial hair really didn't come in properly for years I was quite lucky when came in a bit earlier than that average of genetically blessed and that respect. But I think the first thing I noticed was

[00:07:33] my voice that was the biggest change that happened first after about three four months even after a couple of months your voice starts to crack and they start to just get a little bit more

[00:07:44] husky and body hair seeing like body hair grow in as well and yeah there is I'm not going to go into huge detail but there is some changes that happen to you all genetically as well

[00:08:03] but they that comes in pretty quickly as well. But yeah those are the main ones I would say and but I think the first thing you have noticed is the mood you or your energy levels

[00:08:19] and especially once you more when you get into it but once you're on testosterone there's a point after about six months to a year where you really notice that you're not any stronger

[00:08:31] but the rate in which you gain strength is a lot quicker and the way in which you gain muscle mass is quicker. It's just so I used to notice especially around before testosterone going to

[00:08:47] determine that a lot of the time like I wouldn't have the energy and I was it was a real four thing to do the workhouse and through them whereas when I was on testosterone

[00:08:58] I wasn't getting that or if I was it was the odd session it wasn't like most weeks of the months or I think in fact for one week of the month where I was kind of okay which I think is a

[00:09:10] big thing that a lot of cis women experience and people will find female above and I think they experience that as well like with the month of the cycle and everything it does a lot. The

[00:09:21] shin is not in all that great if you're body in times there's like strength and energy levels and stuff like that and somewhere it's testosterone will increase your energy levels. You will

[00:09:35] get that they say you get the three hrs your heart, horny and hungry and that's it's very true you will eat more and yeah you eat more I mean you are you're going through male puberty

[00:09:53] I think other weird things I noticed were like I was eating more I wanted more protein in my diet I yeah my body was craving more meat and things like that. I don't know if that's common with

[00:10:09] most guys or not but yeah I would say there is definitely a mental, maths, guillanization process. What's un-bored? I think it's difficult to say what is the testosterone social but I think the testosterone does have an impact where there are always going to be an

[00:10:41] argument of whether it's all whether these things are attributed to the home or replacement therapy or whether it's a social and economic pressures but I would say that you start thinking more

[00:10:57] asking than you start thinking more like a man but it's hard to describe and I think it is social norms like you there was definitely a point where like before I transitioned I had more fear

[00:11:18] around going walking home at night and whereas now it's really it's a hard thing to understand of where you've been a female who's afraid to or come and I because there's someone a man walking

[00:11:35] towards you and it's one o'clock in the morning. To then being that becoming that man type of the people as well is really hard process to go through because you can relate so much and know

[00:11:53] that that person is genuinely scared but now that person is deceiving you out the problem and that is a really hard hard. That's a little swallow because you don't you don't want to be

[00:12:07] that person and it makes you like it made me feel a bit sick thinking that I could my presence was putting on or someone else sort of thing but yeah there are that's what I mean by like

[00:12:23] masculineization of the thought process like your thought process does change. I don't know if it's coincidence or not but I do believe my ability to multitask when down slightly that's something that's sort of a bit of a mistake anyway so yeah that's the nice thing

[00:12:42] I mean finding a start talking about cause boobs and football I mean that's that's the old thing I don't know doesn't it. Yeah I mean my sexuality did change yeah I'm now

[00:12:58] perfect sure that's the one on the floor and it's good wood so yeah before I was only interested in men but I believed that was I was brought up in us like my dad came from a military family

[00:13:15] I went to an Able boarding school I was brought up in an environment where it was not okay to be gay or anything like that I had a lone be Trump so I think for me my sexuality changing

[00:13:29] wasn't necessarily that it changed I think it was always that way I just was comfortable enough in myself that I was able to express my sexuality the way that it truly is.

[00:13:42] Have you found yourself mumsplaining anything yet cause I think that's the true sign of change isn't it? Yeah yeah that's not even time for the opportunity that I think I think most people are

[00:13:54] to be honest we all do that. So so you notice the social changes with the walk-in through the street and that makes sense but a lot of people talk about things like changes at work where

[00:14:07] you sort of get more you seem to have more one one seems to have more natural authority when you're transmas because because of the nature and power of you know men at work I don't I don't know if that's something you'd notice or that's a good idea.

[00:14:23] You get male privilege yeah yeah yeah well at least I do I hate the what the term passing but I do pass quite well and I believe that's the reason as to why

[00:14:44] they uh sorry can you just achieve what you ask me my brain is I get brain focus of when you go through men at fours at the same time oh pee-between um so yeah it's a bad idea

[00:14:58] that must be a double nightmare I'm just I want to come on to this sort of biological constructive but but maybe you can talk a little bit more about how you handle those two bits

[00:15:08] of the physical process how does that work they fight against each other um because there's one part of my body there's pumping testosterone through it's being like yeah you're going through this

[00:15:20] but then there's another part of my body that is being told to shut down but because I still have eggs and William and everything it won't completely shut down um because I'm not supposed to go

[00:15:34] through menopause yet so essentially I will continue to go through menopause either until I have a hysterectomy or I reach the natural age in which my body would have done that anyway yeah um

[00:15:47] so that's something that's not talked about a lot is the fact that transmen are actually go through menopause for in my case it will be decades because I don't plan on getting a hysterectomy

[00:15:59] so unless it causes me any problems that are some cases of guys who've been on tea for a while who get all that sudden sharp abdominal pain and they have had to then go and get emergency

[00:16:19] hysterectomy as a result of that it's not many people though but there is a small number of cases where that happened but they're not really sure why in with those cases so before we get

[00:16:36] on because I've not talked to you a little more about that if you don't mind so pregnancy and wounds and such like but before get there I mean I guess I guess certainly this is trans women spend a lot of

[00:16:48] time trying to figure out how to create a female shape and such like how does that work for trans men how does that happen because physiologically you're you're starting with it from play so

[00:17:00] what do you start doing? yeah I mean I say it's the blessing and a curse thing so like with trans feminine people you're surgeries are generally easier than are but our hormones work better

[00:17:13] and it's kind of that's always the way I've seen that in terms of body shape I'd say that I don't know I did a right my hips are not huge the thing that you need to remember is that hormones won't change bone structure

[00:17:33] they I was quite lucky in the respect of I think I started testosterone just before my growth faces because I did grow slightly not a lot but slightly enough enough so I was definitely

[00:17:51] taller than my mother yeah so yeah you're not going to get that structural bone change body fat and muscle muscle massumas gain comes it in after about a year or so on T the body fat redistribution isn't really coming into effect until you're a few years in

[00:18:16] right three or three or so years I'd say is when it really comes into play you do I'd say I do store a bit more body fat belly now less on the hip my shoulders broadened and bulked out but that's more that's more muscle changes

[00:18:37] looking at yeah that does that which I got naturally not just not from working out really obviously I did work out as well so like that was it helps the process but I found as well my

[00:18:52] progress in gym was sped up a lot by testosterone I build muscle a lot quicker than I used to that's just in a fact that's like people always argue of like oh there is no difference or there's

[00:19:07] little difference between man and woman anything a man could do a woman could do too which I do agree with there is yes women can get that as strong as men however it's harder yeah it's not

[00:19:23] it's not the same playing field there there is definitely a difference and I've heard trans women talk about losing their strength when they take oh you do well absolutely yeah and you get

[00:19:34] that's the way this places but what was the best place is either so how do how do you cope with things like so I often hear about people talking about binding and such like so can you sort of

[00:19:44] talk a little bit about that yeah so I had top surgery in 2022 but I used to bind since around 2016 to 2022 so well that sounds horrendous six years yeah yeah I cracked ribs from binding yeah I didn't always find safe the especially in the early days in my transition

[00:20:17] and it was when I first started transitioning binders were still relatively new the first ever binder I had wasn't safe I didn't know this at the time but it was a class binder that was not made from a stretching material it did not allow me to breathe properly

[00:20:36] and I would work out in that time as well I could miss you yeah and that is how I cracked ribs yeah doing things like bench crash and stuff in biser is not not recommended and please no one

[00:20:51] do it I was lucky in the respect of I was I'm not too lucky because I didn't qualify for periariola which is essentially key hold top surgery I didn't qualify for that I potentially

[00:21:08] would have if I hadn't found for years because of how long I'd been binding for it had stretched the skin so much that if he'd done key hold surgery I would have had too much skin

[00:21:23] so I had to have double intuition because of that but because I was on the lighter side there was a couple of times especially later down the line when tape became a more of a thing

[00:21:37] trans tape it's not actually trans tape it people need to realise it's just tapey tape it's been I think it's been used in sports for a long time but it's not really safe for binding

[00:21:52] people especially if you're bigger chested you should not do it at all but I found when I did it it literally felt like my chest was being torn apart because you can breathe which is

[00:22:07] difference between that and a binder as you can breathe but your skin is being pulled constantly and there's nothing to release that pressure on that time this so it does feel like your skin is being stripped apart like that so it's not I wouldn't recommend tape to anyone

[00:22:30] so for someone who's new to that world where's a good source of advice and I say a place to buy things like binders where would you it's been done to recommend that you wear but what should people look out for perhaps maybe that's the best of question

[00:22:47] so you want to look out for breathable materials I mean there are essentially two big brands that you go forward binders however at the same time I never bought one from ivo is company

[00:23:01] I was never in a financial position where I could really afford to justify spending about 40 50 quid on a binder so I always bought cheap ones and mostly off either ivo Amazon there's a thing those two companies are either gc2b or underworks

[00:23:22] gc2b is more the brands that people use now underwork if i believe it's kind of sizzled away gone back to wherever they came from so if you know what I mean I don't I don't know what's

[00:23:34] happened to them but they seem to have dropped off the radar quite a bit but gc2b is the main bad big brand a binder and the only place really that you can definitely know for sure

[00:23:47] that that binder is a safe binder and when I say that as well all binders are unsafe if they used for too long so you should never buy in some more than six hours in a row they say six to eight

[00:24:02] but you shouldn't bind for more than six thousand a row now i i did not lift that rule there were times where i would bind for 14 hours in a day something and you should also never sleep for a binder

[00:24:14] when you bind you're restricting your breathing you are restricting you the amount of oxygen that you get into your body and it's really it's really important that you don't do that while you sleep because you can seriously mess them up so yeah that's good tips the um

[00:24:35] yeah it's interesting i was just wondering when you were saying it's 455 quit for a good binder whether buying something is a bad binder is actually a false economy you know do

[00:24:43] they i'm just wondering do they do the cheap ones less as long do they are the effective are they actually um efficient so i made my binders last just as long as i imagine a GCTB one would have

[00:24:57] lasted the only thing i would say is that when they got older they did become less effective because i always made sure that i bought ones that had a last to come aside of it so they were breathable

[00:25:11] but it was tight enough that it would still be effective as a other binder and so yeah eventually the elastic would get a bit stretched and it wouldn't be as effective

[00:25:23] so that's when you know you just need to buy a new binder and those binders that i was buying is like off-brand i was spending about a 10 or so on each binder and a binder would definitely get me

[00:25:34] through a year like i'd definitely have that binder and it would be good for a year before i have to buy a new one so it's just that's an easy hit from the different perspective you know what

[00:25:48] what we're sort of buying is to cover up different bits and pieces so and please i'm not being in delegate here but what about before we did because i'm quite fascinated to talk about the internal

[00:25:58] plumb in different sort of you know physiology because like you mentioned eggs and wounds and such before we get there i mean how does sexual function work i mean it does that an operation as

[00:26:08] well or is that just something you you know do as a as a cis woman might do for example it's gonna very drastically on person to person i mean yeah it's yeah it's gonna gonna drastically vary i mean i personally i guess we could

[00:26:33] say that i have conventional sex and that respect but it's not everyone is gonna be like that some people don't like penetration and i definitely have my issues with it at times but i think what is good as i said mentioned previously that are some flight anatomy changes

[00:26:57] that you get from testosterone so your glycerous will essentially grow into a little penis essentially um so well if you think about it biology one-on-one we are all female in underwind and then

[00:27:17] you you will either develop testicles and a penis or you will develop over reason a limb now because of that the glycerous itself is already penal tissue so that's why it grows when you go

[00:27:33] on testosterone because it's already there and it functions the same way i'm sort of thing so a lot of people find that is very good for dysphoria and that release alleviate some dysphoria

[00:27:48] and you can obviously get a function out of it as well to an extent so yeah but i wouldn't recommend i think i'm going to lie about that there but it's fascinating to know that

[00:28:05] it's fascinating to know that because of course this i guess is a sort of question people really want to know but you're right don't ask people about it thank you for sharing so so i'm guessing

[00:28:14] i'm guessing for transmask met trans men the issue is that there is the internal physiology there is the womb's eggs and such like so don't there must be a real dilemma about how you handle

[00:28:29] that aspect of your situation i mean i mean i don't need to talk about yours but i mean you talk about having a historically earlier some people might go there but some people

[00:28:39] might want to actually say a vague some people might think that we want to family so so how how you handling those sorts of dilemmas that must be that may say massive

[00:28:49] such a systemic so yeah it is a lot of choice a big choice that you have to make it is possible to have your eggs frozen and stored on the NHS however you have to do it before

[00:29:07] you start well it's going to go find the jute the pretty much told that you need to do it before you start home interpatient therapy yeah mix up but however if you go privately you can definitely come off testosterone and get eggs frozen guys do it it's possible

[00:29:25] so yeah people do that but then that process and itself is a lot it's about 16 weeks of being sharp with female hauling to make your eggs grow to a certain size and then it has minor

[00:29:39] operations you go for go through to get them extracted and then obviously you have the issue you need to then find the surrogate potentially and not all of the eggs might survive the freezing process you've got to find a don up potentially as far as they're essentially

[00:29:57] so there's a lot of things to think about in that respect when it comes to if you wish to conceive naturally it's possible people do it it's something that I thought about doing myself

[00:30:13] and I keep going back and forth on the idea to be honest with you I've spoken to my doctor about it and from what I understand you would have to come off testosterone you would have to

[00:30:26] have two periods and then you would be able to try and conceive naturally you have to have to because you your first one wouldn't be able to consider the regular period because you've gone

[00:30:39] for a long time without having any and then once you've had the second one and it's regular you could that's when you can then to try and conceive unfortunately there's just not really

[00:30:51] a lot of support for people who decide to do that as the healthcare system is aimed at the fifth gender women who go through pregnancy there's a long way we need to go for that

[00:31:04] I was going to say it's almost the most gendered process of all this into a childbirth and it must be must be extremely difficult for trans men who conceive naturally so they're you know they're

[00:31:15] the old pregnant time to trans mom at the same time or or however it happens I can't imagine their NHS being in the handle and not very well they don't I mean I can only speak for locally here I've got a close friend who's also

[00:31:33] trying to masculine who doesn't want to go through the pregnancy process but has had a history actually up until so in to Hanson and throughout that process in my opinion they were

[00:31:46] segregated they were put in a side room the moment they walked in and they said that who was they were they were put in a side room waiting room away from everybody else and then when

[00:31:56] they were in their recovery they were told they were not allowed to walk around the ward for their comfort and everyone else is comfort when I feel it's more everyone else is comfort that they're

[00:32:07] and they were put in a separate room as well and I don't they didn't have an issue with it because they thought it was for their comfort as well but if that was me I would have thought

[00:32:18] uncomfortable because I would have felt like I'm being treated differently I'm being segregated I've been put aside and as a man like they it's not what it terrifies me before of going through

[00:32:31] pregnancy but as a moment because it is all aimed at women I am going to get looked at weirdly if I'm walking down the street in my third trimester there are no maternity clothes for men

[00:32:46] just started like I'm lucky that I've got friends who are close to me who said if you choose to do this I will make you maternity clothes and things like that but not everyone's in that position

[00:33:00] it's something that I'll society we need to it just accept that not everyone that has a room and has the capability to produce children in that way is going to be female I'm living proof

[00:33:14] of that so yeah when you're raising the whole and wider sort of subjective single spaces there aren't these single spaces and I mean it's turning for trans women we have a full horror

[00:33:33] but I guess you're also sort of experiencing exactly the same but just the other way around yeah yeah I mean we we do experience it but I think it again because we do generally

[00:33:47] fly under the radar there we it's like if there was an i introduced about in balance the UK where could I don't have a gender recognition to discuss it I was born in Australia so

[00:34:03] it's been more complicated for me I've got to sort things out over that first so if they introduced the bathroom bill where I had to use the bathroom as my assigned text that would mean that I would have to use female bathroom and

[00:34:20] as me looking with a whole bed a broken voice and all of that if I walked into a room as bathroom I would expect to be slapped or at least been whole what the hell are you doing here

[00:34:36] and so if that was to happen a lot of us would just find the radar and be able to walk into the men's bathroom and it not be an issue yeah I'm yeah let's back to passing as it was

[00:34:50] not yeah but I recognised that not every trans man is gonna have experience I was a definite long point in my life where I did not have that privilege and I was living as a man

[00:35:03] but I did not look like a man at best I looked like a 10 year old boy so it's yeah it's difficult it's interesting to listen to your story into the variety people

[00:35:21] that we have we've come and join us this guest and you listen to this and you listen to the sacrifices and the private nations and everything else that goes on and it all

[00:35:29] stuck us me that people think this is a choice that we somehow you know we just decided to do this one after noon and you know because we're we're we're we're we're fancy being in

[00:35:38] each other's toilets I mean I have to say the only thing I can think of is that how it's a man who's male toilets must be the real rough end of the deal for you I mean I've never

[00:35:48] met a male toilet my life I'd willingly go back to you say that but then in my experience if a girl's toilet if you walk into a toilet and it is bad like it's really bad that's the

[00:36:05] difference whereas like men's toilets are just generally not great but they're also not awful awful most of the time whereas if a woman's toilet is either going to be a match it

[00:36:17] or it's going to be hell you know I mean yeah yeah that's just my experience in general obviously never be too much a research yet not in a long time

[00:36:33] good luck to that and so I mean I know and I know one of the things you and I talking about it's in a different sort of realm but I know you're thinking of running a group for

[00:36:45] trans people going through pregnancy so what's your thinking there are well I believe that there is a gap to support for people around this issue so as we touched upon earlier the whole NHS pathway for pregnancy and birthing is all aimed at went to swim in it's very

[00:37:08] cisgender heteronormative and there are all of the prenatal classes all of the like course all of that sort of the mask classes they're all aimed at mothers they're not aimed parents in general even they aimed at mothers and I know that if I was to get pregnant now

[00:37:31] I would not feel comfortable accessing that support because I'm man I'm not I don't want to turn up there as a pregnant man I'm gonna get at least some weird looks of people like I don't

[00:37:42] want to have to go through that so the idea with this group is to try and try and offer a space where people can support each other through that process even because it

[00:37:54] is a broken system that they're trying to navigate through and the hope is there in the future to try and work with healthcare providers as they progress and be able to try and offer some kind of

[00:38:07] well being an emotional support while they provide more healthcare support you know so that's the idea really because I do feel there is that gap in support for people in the

[00:38:18] trans and becoming parents but it's also I don't also like the group to be a space for other people like the trans people that are going through adoption and photography as well because those those processes are also really difficult and something that there isn't a lot of

[00:38:33] support out there for. Yeah and I think you know I talked about the fact that we've had a podcast before about adoption and fostering and such like and so on because it's something that's

[00:38:44] keen on me what are those I drop a link on the on the show notes to a place where you can access more information about the group so I know it's not ready to start yet but I think it's

[00:38:53] it'll be interesting just as to anybody's thinking about this just to know that there is support available or if you know another person or a trans person somewhere who is you know concerned or thinking about it or wondering where to reach out to get support

[00:39:05] there will be a place so I mean I think it's brilliant initiative when do you think it will be up and running? Where how are things to get it up and running by September? How if we're sooner

[00:39:17] but yeah we're just trying to work out the logistics of it the mainman good yeah that sounds absolutely fine so so the the future is a trans man what's what's it for you?

[00:39:28] In terms of my transition I'm not sure to be honest I'm relatively happy with where I'm up physically at the moment I don't know if I want any lower surgery or not obviously there

[00:39:45] are something we haven't really talked about too much is there are there kind of two main options for lower surgery with trans men you have the toy deal plastic or file plastic they both have their own compromises so in terms of surgery as I touched on earlier with

[00:40:06] trans families generally easier it's easier to take something away than it is to add it so for us metoyed earplasty will give you a result similar to that with a micropena

[00:40:20] so you're talking like an inch or two in length sort of thing so yeah it's on the smaller sides however you're going to have a lot more sensation with that so the way it's done is they

[00:40:37] we talked about earlier how the police were exposed they detached the ligaments that keep it routed down and that's called a release you can have that without having any further lower surgery so you can keep your I'm trying to think of the word now vaginal canal

[00:40:59] you can keep all of that opening and just have a release if you want which will give you a little bit more length and wall allow essentially your little penis to flow freely and move freely and then the further to that they if they do full metoyed earplasty

[00:41:19] they will take the labia and they will create that into a wall sack and they will close the hole but I think there has to be a tiny little gap at the back just for the way the anatomy works

[00:41:36] and then you for the actual penis itself they will take a graph from the inside of your cheek because that is it's wet tissue ready nice moist tissue and so that's why they take it

[00:41:52] from the inside and then that will that essentially gives your penis the death all the length is coming from what you naturally grew in metoyed earplasty and because they're not actually adding that much to it that's why you get more sensation with phylloplasty so metoyed earplasty as well

[00:42:14] you're looking at two to three surgeries to get full metoyed earplasty and that's including getting testicular implants but it has to go in as a like last stage sort of thing whereas phylloplasty you're looking at three to five surgeries to be completed

[00:42:32] some of those stages are you can get different levels of phylloplasty see you might choose the most stage that has the most complication is the urethro lengthening see you might choose not

[00:42:45] to have urethro lengthening which would just mean that you would have a phyllo but you wouldn't be able to stand to pee with it you would have to sit and joy your e-rethro would come kind of underneath

[00:42:56] it in between your balls and the penis there would be your original e-rethro would sit there still the other thing with phylloplasty as well is it is possible you same with metoyed fussy you can

[00:43:09] keep the hole if you want to it's possible but I think you have to put you can't have balls if you keep the hole and pretty sure that's the way it works so that is an option that some people

[00:43:22] choose to go for the main reason why the urethro lengthening has such a high complication rate is because it is pretty gnarly they take they cut a big flap in your the whole of your forearm

[00:43:37] basically it's a long flap that goes like there and they open that they take part of urethro out they put it in a tube inside your arm and they close the flap and the tube sticks out

[00:43:53] of your arm at the top and the bottom now in that tube your urethro grows obviously and you keep that in your arm for as long as you can withstand it most guys can withstand for about a month

[00:44:07] or three weeks or so and then they and then they go in with another operation they take it out and they put it in your penis and then after that you can be found to be but that's a lot to go through

[00:44:22] just to be able to stand to be so and they take graft from your thigh and your heart of the of bottom as well and that's what makes the penis but it's your sister is buried

[00:44:42] underneath there so there is a there is a chance that you could lose all sensation and the sensation will get will not be to the same extent of what you have previously with a lot of things. So I think trade-offs and then that sounds absolutely horrendous when

[00:44:59] you will demonstrate in your arm you actually demonstrate literally from your wrist to your elbow effectively before on so that is that's quite something I mean there's so many different operations there with so many different risks attached to me and these all general

[00:45:12] other settings of operations are oh yeah yeah they are all I'm the general yeah all under the general every stage well I mean suddenly I realize what we don't see you because actually you probably all were wrestling with these quite enormous problems I mean physiological

[00:45:32] never mind these sort of transition and trauma that comes from an endless manor pause through to what you do with eggs and such like I think it's absolutely extraordinary and look thank you so

[00:45:42] much for opening up my eyes and other people's hopefully other people's eyes today and giving us an insight into it and thank you so much for your time today and as I say I'll put a link to the

[00:45:52] group that you've mentioned in the show notes and as soon as that all groups out we can then hopefully start seeing some progress towards helping people who clearly deserve it in your

[00:46:03] well and your side of them in your side of the fence are supposed that's a stringer of a button it should never do me yeah yeah so you take care thanks ever so much all right thank you

[00:46:14] thanks for listening to this episode of Transvox it's been a joy to have you with us if you want to make contact with us you can contact us at Jillian at Transvox.co.uk and if you'd like

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[00:46:44] one of the chosen. Our charity is called Beyond Reflections which is a charity that provides support and counseling to trans people non-binary people and their friends and their families across the UK and the amazing charity doing some amazing work really important so please if you can give

[00:47:02] great and if you want to go and have a look at Beyond Reflections it's beyond hyphen reflections not all good okay and but as I say if you'd like to make a contribution to what we're doing

[00:47:11] because we love to help the people who are well-pots again if you've got ideas for the show things you'd like to ask us questions comments applause or brick that's feel free to send it all into Jillian at Transvox.co.uk and until the next time goodbye bye bye