Transvox Podcast - National Volunteering Week

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[00:00:07] Hey and welcome back to Transvox and in front of me resplendent in her pink trouser suit

[00:00:15] is our friend Jenny. How are you with Jenny? Looking looking very pinky today. Yeah I'm

[00:00:21] embracing my in I'm embracing my in in in Angela Merkel I think with a pink trouser suit.

[00:00:29] I'm not sure I can pull the rest of it off but yes good to see you, Gill. Good to see you.

[00:00:36] Well that's been it's been it's been a little while since we talked because last week we were

[00:00:39] had a guest on as you remember we're talking about polyamorous relationships and and the

[00:00:44] world of kink and how we how we embrace difference in the world and and it's

[00:00:49] interesting because this week I was chatting to a group and two people also mentioned

[00:00:54] that they were being in polyamorous relationships and it's interesting to see how the

[00:00:57] the youth of today embrace a much more flexible area of relationships very different from our day

[00:01:05] I think. Yes yes yeah yeah no I think it's I was going to make some bad joke about being

[00:01:10] in love with a parrot and that really wouldn't work it's not something I've got any any

[00:01:15] knowledge of and now I I found it really interesting because it I think we all live

[00:01:19] in our own bubbles and that it's not something that ever really thought about before

[00:01:25] but it's interesting as for kinks I've got plenty in the wires being on the computer but

[00:01:32] yes yeah it's not something I know a lot about it's really interesting that's part of the podcast

[00:01:36] it's here different perspectives I think. That's it I thought you were going to hit me with an

[00:01:41] old music reference. Was that I don't know what that was but the kinks ah the kinks yes yes yes

[00:01:49] indeed well it's been a funny old week so the elections kicked off and I just thought um it's

[00:01:55] um it's been quite fascinating the first week it's been sort of well it's been it's been

[00:02:00] bizarre isn't it and I mean they're talking about labor and the Ming-va strategy which is

[00:02:06] careful not to say anything in case you break anything and um I just wondered if you had a

[00:02:10] few thoughts about if old Kirstalma happened to be listening to the pod you know a few things

[00:02:15] you might want to listen to for his manifesto. I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure he's got time to listen

[00:02:21] to us um no I've caught I think it caught all of us by surprise I think it caught

[00:02:26] off most of the Tory party by surprise as well consider how many of them suddenly stand down

[00:02:32] so it's quite a shock and we talked about this thinking the previous podcast

[00:02:36] I love politics but I sort of dread it at the moment as well because I know

[00:02:40] our our validity our existence is going to come into debate at some time it hasn't so far as we

[00:02:48] as we sit here on I guess the first Wednesday of the campaign but um it'll be interesting

[00:02:55] yeah um I you know we're at the manifestos haven't come out yet but um I'm sadly not

[00:03:01] expecting any positive progressive policies on trans rights I think that'll probably be the

[00:03:09] most safe bet in the world I think that's not going to be in there yeah and it's interesting

[00:03:13] because I was listening on to a podcast I listened to called The Troll with Marina

[00:03:19] Perkus who was quite lively and somebody else whose name I forget so forgive me for that but

[00:03:24] they had James O'Brien on and yeah and he he was saying actually um in order in order to

[00:03:32] have influence first you have to have power in order to have power you have to win the

[00:03:35] election so what you have to do is to win the election and then you can be as brave as you like

[00:03:39] and this is what I've said before remember I've said you know what I think what I think they're

[00:03:43] doing is they're going to get power and then do what they need to do and um and and he's

[00:03:49] very hopeful and he's saying because if we're not hopeful why does it leave us and um and

[00:03:53] I think that's a fair point really so I think um I've still got a lot of faith and um

[00:03:59] but people like me who are not a natural Labour voter I think um you know well I strongly suspect

[00:04:06] that um I strongly suspect that they're going to just say as little as possible and be as

[00:04:12] non-contentious as possible and just watch the amazing Tory press swing into action isn't it

[00:04:17] fascinating that on the very day that Angela Reyna was exonerated and the police stopped their

[00:04:23] investigation into her that they managed from The Daily Telegraph to announce this story

[00:04:28] about Diane Abbott isn't it amazing how the Tory press collude to actually wipe the good news off

[00:04:35] well they they they they the way Diane Abbott's been treated is just appalling despite you know

[00:04:40] whether she's made political mistakes in the past you know that that's been appalling but

[00:04:45] yeah I know I have seen you know I don't think the press are as um I think they find

[00:04:51] some of them still possible to be that positive about the Tories across the board

[00:04:57] the Express always will, The Telegraph always will but I think I have seen some some cracks

[00:05:02] where they have sort of tried to talk because I think they'll want to back the winners ultimately

[00:05:07] that's what they want to do you know so it might be interesting come closer to the action

[00:05:12] whether they actually just want to be seen to be on the side of the winners because you know

[00:05:17] despite me being completely pessimistic most of the time you know um a glass is half completely

[00:05:24] empty person I don't really see that the Conservatives staying in power anyway so

[00:05:31] I think that will be interesting you just mentioned a podcast actually I'll give a shout

[00:05:35] out I haven't watched it yet but there's a there's a podcast YouTube video called Pods

[00:05:39] Save the UKs but they've got Abigail Thorne on there and the title is around don't

[00:05:44] if you know Abigail Thorne from uh from YouTube um Philosophy Tube brilliant YouTuber yes oh yes

[00:05:53] who did an amazing video just just great dyes on philosophical subjects yes trans and did a

[00:05:59] brilliant uh transition video a couple of years ago and she's on that she's an actress as well

[00:06:05] I think she's appearing in a Star Wars series soon yes but she's um on on on an episode of

[00:06:10] that I'm gonna watch it because it says stopping the politics around gender identity

[00:06:14] is the title and I think that might be some of the best we can hope for is just let's

[00:06:19] stop the politics for a moment and let's hope just people just concentrate on the bigger

[00:06:25] picture and then maybe we regroup um and I think so I think yeah I think you're right

[00:06:31] the Labour Party are not going to say a great deal the Tory party I think were gearing up to

[00:06:35] use it as a a big attack but I get the impression that because it's not worked for

[00:06:41] them that they haven't really said much about it in this campaign so far you know

[00:06:46] they'd already done them the deeds the bad deeds earlier with them schools and the NHS so

[00:06:53] I don't know maybe maybe we will get away without too much horrific discourse around it Jill

[00:07:00] yeah well listen Abigail Thorne because uh because I had watched a philosophy thing talking

[00:07:06] about um oh who's that person um one of the famous uh anyway I can't do it because I'm

[00:07:14] you know what I'm like with names anyway you never guess where she's from

[00:07:19] Yoricka Woods she's from Newcastle she's from Newcastle city yeah she does amazing videos on

[00:07:25] all sorts of subjects really interesting really clever and really well filmed but her

[00:07:31] she was amazing she transitioned before she transitioned on YouTube so she was effectively

[00:07:37] dressing down to do the YouTube videos because she'd already transitioned and then she just

[00:07:41] came out and shocked everybody it was brilliant amazing video if you want to watch that so go

[00:07:45] on to philosophy tube a good a good shout out I think there's some really good content

[00:07:50] and excellent but yeah but that is that's the title when it said you know stop in the politics

[00:07:55] gender identity it would just be good for people to say nothing for the moment and then

[00:08:00] hopefully the new government we can at least have some peace for a while and then start

[00:08:04] to rebuild yeah as you said so maybe maybe one of the things which I think was quite

[00:08:10] eye-catching this week was in Rishi Sunak's Bizarre World he announced a policy this week which

[00:08:19] which apparently none of these none of his team knew anything about and

[00:08:24] the classic thing when the whole of your team goes you what now and he announced the concept

[00:08:29] with national I mean talk about going back to the 50s you know which generation honestly I

[00:08:32] mean let's go back and do national service and if you can't do national service in the army

[00:08:37] then you have to do volunteering every week I mean what do you think about this idea well

[00:08:42] there do's to him for surprising people because it hasn't surprised people much in the last few

[00:08:46] years other than with the constant incompetence but well that really wrong-footed that is a

[00:08:51] throwback I mean you know what's next is bringing back the death penalty it does feel

[00:08:56] like sort of 70s throwback politics you know and as I think it's completely I mean it's

[00:09:03] clearly ill thought out and I understand that the national service part of it they're only

[00:09:08] talking about 30 000 yeah people in the army don't want it the army don't want a load of

[00:09:15] 17 80-year-olds who don't want to be there being there I mean they clearly set the stall

[00:09:20] out that they're going to abandon getting a young vote interesting the Labour Party have

[00:09:24] talked about extending voting to 16 yeah I'm all for you know if you can fight for your

[00:09:29] country you should be able to vote yeah and um and obviously the Tories don't want that

[00:09:34] because they tend to vote Labour so it seems that they've abandoned young people yeah so

[00:09:40] I'm not the the national assurance the national service part of it in terms of serving in the

[00:09:46] army I think is is the red meat bit of it but actually doesn't really make the dish because

[00:09:52] it doesn't really make this make sense of the dish because it's such a small part of

[00:09:57] it and they don't really know what to do with it they're saying they're not going to send people

[00:10:00] to prison if they don't and they don't know so it's that's all a bit of a mess yeah and the

[00:10:05] army can't recruit young people anyway so who's going to volunteer for that the other bit of

[00:10:10] it I think you touched upon is this idea of voluntary volunteering well how can it be

[00:10:16] volunteering if you're being made to do it yeah doesn't that not make it not voluntary

[00:10:22] I'm missing something here no I don't think you are but it but it did lead me on to

[00:10:26] thinking that Nash next week from the third to the ninth of June is national volunteers week

[00:10:32] oh right and of course and I know you volunteer and I know you get a lot out of it so I just

[00:10:37] wondered what you without necessarily saying who you volunteer for but oh unless you want to but

[00:10:43] I just wondered why you volunteer and what do you get out of it well I know you do lots

[00:10:48] of voluntary work I mean I guess I'm as a trustee of the charity that we

[00:10:55] we support beyond reflections I volunteer through that that charity and you know

[00:11:02] personally for me it's opened my eyes it was an idea friend Paul who encouraged me to get

[00:11:07] involved and now the idea of being doing voluntary work doing stuff outside has always

[00:11:13] appealed to me anyway I mean part of I guess trade unionism is looking at wider social

[00:11:19] social goods so I've always you know always been keen to try and do bits of that but

[00:11:25] didn't really think how but working with a charity has opened my eyes about how easy that

[00:11:30] can be and how wonderful it is I mean I've met the most wonderful bunch of impressive people

[00:11:37] as fellow trustees the charity and you know we do as volunteering in that respect

[00:11:43] is help run the charity help help its direction I think and so forth so I find that really

[00:11:50] interesting valuable valuable we have lots of trustee volunteers within the charity who

[00:11:56] are doing far more than I in terms of facilitating groups and supporting trans people

[00:12:01] with their mental health or well-being and I think that is I think just personally if you're

[00:12:07] struggling and we've talked about this at the moment with our mental health with what's happening

[00:12:11] around trans politics and stuff do something positive to actually be doing something positive

[00:12:16] for the community and positive society the best thing for my mental health I must admit

[00:12:22] there's something selfish about it but I think there's a concept of whether there is ever any

[00:12:27] truly altruistic act it doesn't really matter I mean I value just being able to do something

[00:12:35] positive it's you know I do something something different to feel like I'm making a difference in

[00:12:41] and other than shouting on social media or just getting angry and frustrated yeah but you just

[00:12:47] you're the same I mean what about you you I know you've done voluntary work in the past

[00:12:52] well it's interesting because I used to work as a client I used to have was one of the big

[00:12:57] cancer charities and it's quite interesting how volunteering falls into older people

[00:13:05] who have time and maybe they've retired and they want to do something different keeps them

[00:13:09] mental health stimulated keeps them feeling relevant gives them a sense of purpose but also

[00:13:14] it allows them to engage with maybe a cause that they're fond of you know the thing I

[00:13:18] worked with was the cancer charities and a lot of people who'd experienced cancer or

[00:13:24] survived cancer would come and volunteer with a charity so you used to get people who'd

[00:13:29] experienced the situation but you often get lots of younger people as well and a lot of

[00:13:33] young people use volunteering as a way to get work experience and to you know to build character

[00:13:39] and responsibility and grow up a little bit and experiment with the world of work and I think it's

[00:13:43] particularly useful for people who have neurodivergent situations going on because of course

[00:13:48] what you can do is you can find a charity that has the accommodation or the or the the

[00:13:53] wherewithal to be able to to welcome people in with sort of the you know different needs

[00:13:59] because of course most organizations are really keen to have volunteers

[00:14:04] especially volunteers who are committed and and effectively do what they promise to do

[00:14:09] because a lot of people a lot of people volunteer and they like the idea of it but

[00:14:14] they forget actually that there is a commitment and you know there is there is a responsibility

[00:14:19] so I know someone quite close to me who volunteers at a as a at a hospice charity

[00:14:24] and they're driving and and of course if they don't turn out that's someone who has a

[00:14:29] an appointment with a hospice when a hospital or something and who's just left on the side

[00:14:33] of the street so so it's quite interesting you know some people some volunteers can volunteer

[00:14:38] have very very senior roles so trustees often have different roles from operational volunteers

[00:14:44] because trustees are running and guiding a charity at the most strategic level but it

[00:14:49] there's something for everybody in it I think and I think I think it's a really fascinating way to

[00:14:54] keep your mental health alive and as you say I think we hit on something here as well

[00:15:00] you meet a really different strata of people don't you oh do the people I've met are just

[00:15:05] astounding um you know I've met you through volunteer Jill you know the things

[00:15:10] the thing the doors it opens my dad is 83 he volunteer drives takes people to the hospital

[00:15:17] from around the Staffordshire Moorlands who need new to help drive into the hospitals back

[00:15:22] and it's it's great for them that he's doing that that service uh shout out to Staffordshire

[00:15:28] Moorland's homelink um I don't know if they've got any listeners but um well hey but also for

[00:15:34] him you know he meets but he's out meeting people he's yeah I'm I've never discussed it

[00:15:39] with him but you know he's you know getting on in his 80s and it's keeping him you know

[00:15:44] seeing people socially and helping people and he loves doing that I think he really

[00:15:50] he moment he retired he did that you know so there is plenty in that I think it's really

[00:15:56] I think it is really interesting thinking about I mean if the if the if the government

[00:16:02] really cared about improving society through volunteering like they purported to do with

[00:16:06] this idea rather than try and bully young people into it at the time in the life

[00:16:11] and they may want to go off you know be doing other things or whatever if they could one of

[00:16:18] the things it could do and this could be something in a manifesto maybe or for the future

[00:16:22] is make it easier for people who are employed to volunteer by maybe encoding something more

[00:16:29] like flexible working requests like volunteer leave or something like that encouraging

[00:16:33] employers to do that I'd like to encourage our interest employers to do that because

[00:16:38] that way people are able to get some time maybe you know to do a public good as well

[00:16:44] and then there is something different and they lose their new skills and nice that could be

[00:16:49] something positive that could be done you know to the vast majority of people who are more

[00:16:55] stuck because they've got to work you know 40 hours a week or something and maybe ever so

[00:17:00] often they could do some volunteering so that would be a suggestion rather than trying

[00:17:04] bully young people into volunteering in my view I think it's just such a misplaced

[00:17:15] policy really in every way but yeah I think it's something I never thought about and valued

[00:17:21] until I got involved in a charity. There's a couple of organisations I bumped into across

[00:17:26] the course of my life where their senior management teams will spend the land have

[00:17:31] a policy that allows everybody in the organisation to do two days a year volunteering whatever it

[00:17:36] might be a lot of councils do that for example but also what often happens is sometimes the

[00:17:41] management team will go and work in a charity sort of running that charity for a small period

[00:17:46] of time maybe helping with a change project or helping do some international work or something

[00:17:51] along those lines and that can be really brilliant because of course a lot of people

[00:17:55] from large organisations know the theory of management leadership but they it comes home

[00:18:00] in a charity in a different way because it's small enough to see the impact of what you're doing

[00:18:04] and you often see that in a very interesting clash of cultures where I remember

[00:18:10] seeing something written down about this or something about I think it was McKinsey's or

[00:18:14] some of the big consultants and they'd gone to run a small company and couldn't do it

[00:18:18] because they were used to actually saying things like well we need to now spend three

[00:18:23] weeks fixing the strategy and the current chief exec said well we've got 10 minutes

[00:18:28] because this afternoon we may go bust and it was this very different this sort of real

[00:18:35] interest in classic cultures bringing the realities of small organisations to life.

[00:18:42] I've certainly let that be in a trustee that you know that I didn't realise how

[00:18:48] difficult that'd be and you know I spent all my life in massive NHS organisations and working

[00:18:53] with effectively a small employer you know you know a small number of employees and then

[00:18:58] volunteers as well so it does open your eyes and the people I've met they come from such

[00:19:04] impressive different backgrounds who I'd never have met in other circumstances.

[00:19:09] How do I mean I was lucky that I got you know a friend introduced me to the charity and

[00:19:13] got involved and I don't know if you've got the answer Joe but how do how do people go about

[00:19:18] finding opportunities for volunteers and charities is it just a matter of looking up

[00:19:23] what charities available locally and what you I don't know how you would do it because it

[00:19:27] well there's a number of agencies so there's organisations like Reach Volunteering, Third Sector

[00:19:32] Jobs, if you're on LinkedIn for example you can find those organisations pretty quickly.

[00:19:38] If you're interested in cause I mean the quickest way to go to any cause is just to

[00:19:43] for example if you're interested in volunteering a trans charity just go online and every single

[00:19:48] every single I would say every single charitable organisation is looking for

[00:19:53] volunteers and in terms of trustees it's always hard to find a financial person because

[00:19:59] if you've got financial skills because it's quite an onerous job it's quite a responsible

[00:20:04] job being a treasurer not everyone can do that so I think it's about finding a cause

[00:20:09] and just doing a search so I know Beyond Reflections which is where we both volunteer

[00:20:15] is in Southampton but if you went if you found our website there'd be a page saying hey become

[00:20:19] a volunteer and we have a volunteer coordinator and unusually like most charities they have

[00:20:25] someone whose job is completely focused on managing finding recruiting inducting looking

[00:20:32] after the well-being of the volunteers and making sure they're paired with the right work

[00:20:35] because unlike a commercial organisation that doesn't have volunteers in a sense the volunteer

[00:20:43] coordinator is like the HR department of the normal organisation so it's quite an unusual

[00:20:48] structure because most and it presents all sorts of unusual and fascinating management

[00:20:53] challenges because of course we've got volunteers who could just say you know what I don't like

[00:20:56] this I'm leaving whereas you can't really do that in your job so I'd say there's lots of

[00:21:01] agencies and if you're interested in the course going have a look and if you just put in

[00:21:06] into Google I want to be a volunteer there are hundreds of organisations.

[00:21:10] And I think most NHS trusts will have volunteers yes some aspects I mean actually if I think

[00:21:16] about it the first thing I did in nursing was a volunteer because I was working in the

[00:21:20] kitchens but I volunteered to go and score some people with learning disabilities I was in

[00:21:28] a hospital with people with learning disabilities on holiday and I went for the holiday it was the

[00:21:32] best week in the late district and that introduced me to nursing and I ended up becoming

[00:21:38] getting involved in nursing for people with learning disabilities and the first step in that

[00:21:42] was you know doing it as a volunteer because I got time and you know I was time rich

[00:21:47] I guess back then well yeah I think there are opportunities I just don't think it's

[00:21:51] something that we think about all the time but it was when you mentioned that the

[00:21:55] government talked about volunteering the government aren't talking about volunteering

[00:21:59] the government are talking about making young people doing something that's the

[00:22:05] absolute opposite of volunteering and whether that comes off, I don't think they're going

[00:22:12] to be in power but whether that comes off or not but I do think there can be more done to

[00:22:18] support the charity sector by governments making it easier for people to do that you know

[00:22:24] yes it's interesting because do you remember the it is fascinating because of course the

[00:22:29] Labour Party have a tendency to wrap more social care and more central government around

[00:22:37] social causes but it was the Cameron's government I think who created the big

[00:22:41] society and John Major's government as well who had stuff now I'm not saying they're good or

[00:22:45] bad I don't think it really worked with them but no but it is interesting how it

[00:22:51] did raise the profile of volunteering at the time and I think there's all sorts of different

[00:22:58] volunteering things you can do so for example I know a lawyer who works for one day a month

[00:23:03] just gives those services free and they do things and there's a hospice around here that

[00:23:07] offers free will writing so you pay the charity and then the solicitor works for nothing

[00:23:12] for you so many people have got skills and are not utilised I never knew what I'd ever

[00:23:19] thought I got any particular skills seems my skill is sort of yabbering for a living

[00:23:25] and I'm quite good about picking something out of a point of order out of minutes but

[00:23:30] I'd trust these meetings but you don't think what you can you don't think you can add value

[00:23:35] but you can I just think yeah I mean I don't think the big society of Cameron I mean

[00:23:42] I'm never not appreciating for introducing equal marriage I'll always give David Cameron

[00:23:47] I won't forgive for Brexit but I'll always forgive it given for that but the more just

[00:23:52] think about it just talking your jellies we could make this so much easier for people

[00:23:57] I'm not saying go as far as give tax breaks for people who are volunteering but if we really you

[00:24:02] know it could be really transformative for the country if they could just open some doors

[00:24:06] and make it a bit easier for people to engage and to do volunteering of whatever sort be it

[00:24:13] as a trustee but being it as more nuts and bolts and actual getting out there and volunteering

[00:24:20] because I think I can't remember who said this was a politician recently but

[00:24:28] we're at heart I don't know it might even be James O'Brien we're an altruistic society

[00:24:34] we're not governed by people who are altruistic but at heart we want to I think our nature as a

[00:24:39] society to want to but do I mean yeah I'm not saying every single person but I think

[00:24:45] our innate senses we want to do that and if we could make the world easier and more accessible

[00:24:50] to do that be that you know finding a ways of making it easier if you're working for a living

[00:24:56] or finding ways to make it more accessible if you're not working and got time in that way

[00:25:01] I think that would be I'd vote for that yeah I'd vote for that but I don't think it's

[00:25:05] going to be in the manifestos but yeah but maybe when we start our our because we've said

[00:25:12] about power is important when we eventually start our trans vox party and pushing that

[00:25:21] trans agenda that everybody says we have that that will be when our manifesto Jill maybe you

[00:25:28] never know the trouble the trouble is with all these ideas we have I completely forget them

[00:25:32] seconds after I put the phone down that's true because we're goldfish at heart so we're you know

[00:25:36] we're podcasters with that generation it's in and out but you're in fruity aren't we hey

[00:25:42] two minutes yeah so all this great ideas um but I think it but I just you know

[00:25:48] it is volunteers week and why are we not making it as everything possible for people

[00:25:55] the volunteer I don't see the downside of it you know um you know I really don't go out and

[00:26:02] have a look if there's anybody out there who's intrigued I mean our travel should be on

[00:26:06] reflections always needs volunteers and whilst we're on the south coast we have people all

[00:26:11] over the country who help and support us so um I mean the people you and I are nowhere near

[00:26:17] the south coast are we that would not be unless south coast and in fact I don't think in

[00:26:22] the trustee border is anybody I think there's one person yes yes we are where but there's so

[00:26:29] much being done remotely now and you know and things like that so it hasn't just got but also

[00:26:35] with your own local community of course that's yes that's great as well because you can have

[00:26:38] that more tangible connection I think but um yeah what a good one an interesting conversation

[00:26:44] who would have thought Richie Soonach would open her minds like that you see with his heart

[00:26:49] thought out knee-jerk 50s style national service policy who would have thought that he might be

[00:26:56] onto something else if Richie strikes again yeah we'll see what he comes up with next week

[00:27:01] in desperation it will probably bring about the death penalty and um and caning in schools and

[00:27:09] and so forth it will probably you know it'll probably be scrapping them scrapping the metric

[00:27:15] system and all the sorts of we've talked about that already hasn't they I think I think food

[00:27:21] rationing what what I thought was fascinating though just sorry because I know we're just

[00:27:24] about finished but what I found was fascinating was this I was listening to him talking about

[00:27:29] it bearing in mind he's a multi-millionaire and bearing in mind he's a member of you know

[00:27:33] the sort of superior classes and all that sort of stuff he said it's really important

[00:27:38] that the country begins to learn the value of service and I thought that is one of the most

[00:27:47] creepy things I've ever heard because in his head he I know what he means but it just sounds

[00:27:51] like that he wants everybody else to worship the top one cent you know that's their job is to

[00:27:57] be in service yeah there may be something that there may be something in that who are we all

[00:28:03] serving with serving capitalism that's what we're serving jill ultimately we're all

[00:28:07] back on our socialist you're back in your socialist we're all serving the god of

[00:28:10] capitalism of late late late stage capitalism we are but um it doesn't stop me buying another

[00:28:17] ipad but there we are um no yeah interesting conversation I think this will be a constant

[00:28:22] topic well the election and what comes out but um who would have thought um who would

[00:28:26] have thunk it but we'll we'll we'll wait I guess all right well see you next week and

[00:28:31] we'll see what else transpires great great to chat you I'm gonna have to get out of this suit

[00:28:37] it really doesn't it really is uncomfortable and it was great to great to speak to you again

[00:28:42] jill and thanks everybody you take care bye bye thanks for listening to this episode of trans

[00:28:50] vox it's been a joy to have you with us um if you want to um make contact with us you can

[00:28:56] contact us at jillian at trans vox dot uk and if you'd like to support the work we do please

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[00:29:56] until the next time goodbye bye