Transvox - Musings about Confidence

[00:00:07] Good evening, one and all, and welcome to Transvox. And with me tonight, sitting resplendent again in her fantastic Stoke City hockey strip, is my good friend, Jen. How on earth are you this evening? Looking fine, ready with your blades.

[00:00:29] I am very well. I don't actually think Stoke has an ice hockey team, which would be difficult without an ice rink in North Staffordshire. But my brother's a very good field hockey player. He's played all his life. Yeah, he plays for Hastings, I think. Really? Or played for, yeah, he's in his 40s. I think he played for the Welsh over 40s or 50s at one point.

[00:00:53] Well, do you have any fields in the potteries? Because I'm guessing they're full of bits of old clay. Haha! Stoke is a very green, it has more parks than almost any city. Because each town, because it's six towns plus Newcastle, each town has parks and things. So we have a lot of parks in Stoke. It's a very green city in that respect. So, because it's slightly different. You know, you should all visit Stoke. But of course there are plenty of other parks.

[00:01:21] Broken bottom kilns and clay pots lying around. You paint a magnificent picture there. One which I'm sure the Stoke Tourist Board would be delighted to hear. Do you know, it's weird how the older you get, the more fond you get of where you come from. Oh no, I'm only 27. No, of course. But I didn't care when I was 20. But now you get weirdly proud of your city with all its flaws.

[00:01:50] I didn't know you lived in a skyscraper. No, well we don't have, no, I just have two floors. Well, I live in a, yes, different sort of floor. But yes, yes, I don't know where we've gone on this, Jill. We seem to have started talking about Stoke. I'm happy to talk about Stoke for 40 minutes, but I'm not sure we would test our listeners. Do you reckon if we talked about Stoke for 40 minutes that actually that would be even less popular than talking about Star Trek for 40 minutes?

[00:02:18] I don't know. I don't know. There's a lot to be impressed by Stoke. We have a unique city, I say. Well, how is it unique? Well, one is it's a coalition of six towns. Arnold Bennett used to round about any of five towns. All these towns grow, grow together. The pottery industry, you know, the trade union movement partly started in Stoke on Trent with a chance.

[00:02:45] You know, you're absolutely right. It is actually more boring than Star Trek. I know. We're very good at darts. We have a lot of darts world championships. Really? Eric Bristow and Phil Taylor both from Stoke. Yeah. Yeah, so we're good at some stuff. Oatcakes, if you ever need to know, okay, the greatest food in the earth, Staffordshire Oatcakes. But let's not talk about Stoke for 40 minutes. Thank you for the mental health of everyone listening. We should move away from Stoke.

[00:03:13] And I know that you wanted to talk today about either confidence or resilience. So which one do we fancy? We'll do one one episode and one another. Which one do you fancy? You pick. Oh, let's do one of them. Confidence. Confidence. Right. Resilience it is. So, confidence. Well, yeah, confidence. Okay.

[00:03:40] Well, actually, I'm a big fan of confidence, actually. No, good. And it's interesting, isn't it? When we're confident, we feel great. When we're confident, it's that thing where we can take on the world. And a lot of people don't know what makes up confidence. Do you have any idea what actually makes up confidence? I don't. And it's very interesting to understand that.

[00:04:02] Because, you know, I could see sort of my journey to a level of confidence from being somebody so shy to be able to be able to stand up in front of a couple of thousand people as a trans woman on a stage, you know, and talk about that. And I'd never imagined that confidence to do that or public speaking of things. And I think some of that is related to the journey of coming out as trans and having to deal with that. But what makes confidence?

[00:04:31] I don't really know. Well, you just said it. Thoughts? What's that? You just actually said it. Well, it's sort of made up two different things. It's made up of managing and conquering your fear and building skills and competence. So what you'll find is that in order to build, in order to build your, to manage your fears, you need to build your skills. So it's that thing about when you first go out in public, you build the skill, you're able to go out, you learn to pass, you build your confidence because your fears diminish. And the more your fears diminish, the more you build your confidence.

[00:05:01] So it's a self-repeating circle. Sort of what's it called? What's the thing that's self-repeating? I'm doing this shape in my hands, but that's not much. You are. It's very interesting. And self-repeating. It's one of those virtuous cycles, isn't it? Virtuous cycle. Yeah. So the thing is, you know, the first time you speak in public at a union conference, you have low skills. So you practice, you rehearse, and then you give it a go, you do it. And then you realize, actually, I can do this. And then you begin to build your proficiency and your skills. And the next time you do it, your fears are fewer.

[00:05:31] So you notice particularly on Strictly Come Dancing is they build confidence. And actually, you'll see the nerves at the beginning. They build the skills. They expose themselves to the fear. They build the skills. They become more confident. The nerves reduce. And this is actually the process of building confidence. And it's actually a remarkably simple thing. But the challenge is this, one which is at the very beginning. Because, of course, you don't have the skills and the fear becomes massive. And people who are massively confident, of course, have very little fear and they have very high skill.

[00:06:01] So now when you speak at a conference, you'll always get a little buzz in your tummy, won't you? Because of that little frisson of excitement. Oh, no, definitely. No, you can do it. And I mean, that frisson of excitement is a natural thing of giving you, of juicing up and getting your stress hormones galloping around your system to really sharpen your mind and get you ready for the fray. But it's fascinating to know that the visceral reaction that's happening in your body is a completely natural thing. It's protecting you from the thing that you fear the most.

[00:06:30] And so if the, and I remember the first time I went out in public, I was absolutely terrified. The first time I went to shops, absolutely terrified. First time I got on a train, absolutely terrified. But you have to build up, don't you? And the more you build up, the more you figure out skills. You know, you figure out your competence, you build your knowledge, you understand things a little bit more. You, and there you are. It's a simple guide to build in confidence. I mean, I want to make it simple because actually you want people to know that it's something they can easily master.

[00:06:57] Now, the key is that you have someone that can help you coach or rehearse what you're going to do. So if you're going to go up for the first time or you're going to go to the doctors for the first time, just sitting down with someone and walking through what someone might say, how they might say it. What happens if they say that? What happens if they say no? What happens if they, what happens, what happens, what happens, what you're doing actually in a funny sort of ways, you're pre-framing the future. So it reduces the amount of anxiety and the fear that's associated with that. There you are.

[00:07:25] I think that's, I think, no, absolutely. I can relate to that. So I'm just using that example of the first time I spoke at a conference. You know, this is in a massive conference hall, 2000 people on a stage with your face projected on a huge screen. And you've, I don't remember doing, I remember I was due to speak on this motion. And in the lunchtime I was in the toilet having a cry because I was so, I knew I wanted to do it because it was something I wanted to do. That was driving me on.

[00:07:54] It was something I wanted to overcome, but I was terribly nervous. Um, and I, but I, I did it and I did, I did that what you said about planning. I rehearse. So I've got a speech to make, so I made sure I'd sit there repeating it, repeating it to make sure I didn't go over time to make sure I didn't stumble on words, you know, and sort of things. Things like that. And so I've got the confidence in that bit of it.

[00:08:20] The only thing I had to deal with was listening to myself booming out of these speakers, right? With a, what I regard as a terribly non, non female voice. Yeah. And, and, and it went and it went well. And, um, and, and it built on that. So it starts to become not like if I did it, I haven't spoken now for a year or two. So I haven't been, but if I went tomorrow, I would be nervous, but I do, I wouldn't know what to expect. And I would be able to come those, those nerves. So I don't think nerves are a bad thing, um, in, in of itself.

[00:08:48] Um, it's it, but it was the planning bit. It was understanding what I was facing. Um, because I speak to loads of people say I couldn't do that. And actually you could, I see it all the time. Yeah. I just want, I think our conferences are amazing because you get people in their everyday life would never have the opportunity to do anything like that. You know, they, they may have a, you know, a rank file job in the NHS. Suddenly you can stand up in front of all those people that have them in the palm of the hand. It's amazing. And yet you get chief executives.

[00:09:15] I speak to interest who, who were scared to death of speaking to a room of a hundred people, for instance. Yeah. I think it's, I think it's, I think it's amazing that confidence it gives you, but I got so much more confidence out of my journey transition that you've talked about overcoming each of those terrifying moments that actually never transpired. You know, I, I was so much more confident as a woman than I was as a man. Yeah. And I think, and I think it's because you, you, um, in a funny sort of way, you have to face some more hurdles.

[00:09:44] So you jump on hurdles. Therefore you conquer more hurdles. And, and, you know, sometimes you get it wrong, in which case that's where the resilience comes in. We'll, we'll talk about that in a different time, but, but that confidence building thing is something we don't give ourselves enough credit for. And often a lot of people, you know, they'll talk to me, um, in some of the therapy work I do around how terrible they feel and how unworthy they are and blah, blah, blah, blah. And you'll say to them, but look how far you've come. And they look back and they go, do you know what? That's absolutely right.

[00:10:11] Even, even if you just did it for the first time and then you come back and you say, it wasn't as great. I didn't enjoy it, but you've done it. And it's, and, and you'll talk to people who've done, I mean, you know, going to the doctors for the first time can be quite terrifying because actually, do you know what? You don't know how that's going to go. And, um, and then you talk to people and come back and say, this is what's happened. You said, but you've done it. So, and it's that it's, you, you need the coach, you need the external validation, you need someone who's, who's on your side.

[00:10:36] You need the sort of, you need someone on your corner who's a bit of a cheerleader for you because it's quite hard to be your own cheerleader because the very process of being fearful means that we tend to look at the negative because we all have this sort of natural negative bias, which means we tend to notice the things that aren't going so well. But actually, if you've got someone with you, it's really fascinating. I went out recently, um, with someone I know who was, we were, we just went shopping together and, um, we were gassing away for the whole time.

[00:11:06] And I didn't, I hadn't really noticed. I'd been out, I'd been shopping, I'd been, I'd been walking through probably areas that I wouldn't have done, done beforehand. Because you just, you just sort of distracted. And it's always nice to have someone with you as much as you can. And I always think the journey is easier if you've got someone, a supporter, a friend or an ally or whatever it might be.

[00:11:28] And especially for a trans woman, I always think because actually people tend to notice couples less than they do, or even pairs of women or pairs of trans women. Whereas if you're on your own, you can, you can, you feel a bit more awkward and therefore you sort of come across a little bit more obviously. So therefore you tend to stand out a little bit more until you learn the skills of blending in just being a bit more confident. I mean, I find the hardest thing to be honest, cause I'm tall as I know you are as well. It's this thing about standing up tall.

[00:11:58] Cause of course I tower over people. And so I always wear flats and I sort of, you know, I remember someone saying, you're trying to shrink. And what you're going to, if even if I lose half an inch, I'll still be six feet. So, you know, you may as well be just be six foot and a half an inch and be proud and look and stand upright because that's a lot less obvious. But these are skills you learn over the course of time and having people to help you and distract you is really important. I think that's interesting.

[00:12:24] I mean, I didn't, I didn't have anybody to go with me in those first steps. I'm not sure myself or wanted anybody with me at that time. I wanted to control, which might've been my own and I wanted to be able to bottle out. And if I, if I couldn't, those first steps, I remember, I think I've talked about before going around the shops on my own. And I, and you're right about that bit about shrinking. I remember when we first went to supermarkets, I'd sort of try and duck behind the aisle and maybe, well, actually just made stuff weird.

[00:12:53] And people would look at you cause you're acting weird. And the truth of the matter is I'm, I'm taller than you. I'm six foot. Well, I was six foot two, but I think with age, I'm probably about six foot one now. And there's no way I'm not going to be noticed. So there's no point that being the issue. Really? Yeah. The issue is just to be, you know, to once I gain that confidence, people don't look because I'm, I'm walking around confidence. I'm just doing my day. So I don't actually notice if people are ever staring at me. I don't think they're, they are.

[00:13:20] I just think they just don't really notice me cause you're getting on. So I think that's interesting. And of course you're right on that. It is good. If you have somebody with you, a lot of our community don't have people that can necessarily rely on because we can't. We can be isolated and lonely, but there are people you can YouTube videos and there's people you can find information from, I think. So, so yeah, I mean, I think people find that confidence in different ways.

[00:13:45] I found mine from take, you know, from taking those steps that I thought was so risky and then nothing really bad happened. And I thought, well, what's the, what's the, you know, what's the deal? I remember, you know, right at the beginning of the journey, being in a hotel and thinking, well, actually, and there's two bits of advice that Simone gave me. One, which is at the beginning, you're a trans woman or a trans man. Celebrate the fact you're a trans woman, trans man and be proud of it and enjoy it. And just think to yourself, well, this is it.

[00:14:14] I'm, I'm not pretending to be something I'm not. I just can be myself, which is this thing. And, and so do it. But I remember going in and being in a hotel once. And it was that fear of coming out of the room, just walking out of the room. And then you get out of the room into the corridor and the door would slam behind you. And then you've got to walk along the corridor. Then you've got to get to the lift. If you have to go on a lift, then you've got to get down the lift and you've got to get through reception. And then it's dark and that's all fine because it's dark.

[00:14:43] And then later when you've got to get back into the hotel, but by then you've walked around and you've built your confidence and the nerves have managed and you breathe. And you've, and you're sort of not in everything's been okay. And you sort of walk back to the hotel, you can take it on and you notice it's just a little bit easier. And then the next time you do it, it's a little bit easier still. So I know what you mean about doing it on your own, but there's that thing about having that fear, having that thing that says, I'm just going to do it. And I'm going to do it now. Bomb. And there's a, there's an old technique in psychology. I forget the name of the woman.

[00:15:12] You just count down for five. So five, four, three, two, one, do it. Bang. Off you go. And it's a, it's a very, very, I forget the name of the person who does that method now. But it's a really good method. Just count yourself down from five. And, um, um, let me just see if I can remember who it is. Um, and, uh, but, but I, I find that really useful for people. If you're just going to do something, it's a grounding exercise. That's right. Uh, no, it's not that one, but, um, anyway, I'm just burbling now, but I think it's something you say to yourself. I want to do something. Okay.

[00:15:41] Five, four, three, two, one, go. And the process of counting stops you thinking about the thing. And one of the ways you manage fear and you manage particularly anxiety is to distract yourself or diffuse your, the focus. So it's about retaining control, but being distracted in the moment. So the, the stress doesn't overtake your body and you can make them make your limbs work. But it's, it's, it's, I think it's quite a, I think you learn a lot about yourself. It's interesting.

[00:16:08] You say a more confidence woman, because I think going through transition teaches you so much about yourself. It builds levels of self-awareness that most people just don't have, because why would they, how would they ever get, get, get in these things? No, that, that, that's absolutely true. I mean, you know, it's really strange to think about.

[00:16:28] There was a time where I would go and go out the door after dark, you know, with a scarf of medicine, we could see me and just walk around the block and would be weirdly anxious about that. I mean, when I, when I was, I mean, to be fair, I think it was pretty really driven when it, when it came to transition in that I really wanted, it wasn't enough for me to be me behind closed doors. I needed to be part of the world. So I was really driven in that.

[00:16:55] So I can't remember a time where I really ever got to say, Oh no, I just don't know if I can go or not. I would do them. I would do those things because, and I, and again, maybe different now because I think it was a lovely time in 2005 in a weird way. It was a better time than now because I didn't get any negativity. I can think of one occasion and I'm not going into it, but other than that, I can't think of any negativity I've received going out and about.

[00:17:23] And I do not, you know, in our, in their community terms pass, you know, people would know, and I have not received on the street any real negativity about being, being trans. Um, which I'm not sure I'd have that confidence. We talk about confidence now because I feel I'd be more likely to be, I don't know, somebody to take issue or try than, than it was in 2005. So maybe I was a bit lucky in that respect. I think, yeah.

[00:17:50] Uh, and I, and I, you know, I'm not a brave, you know, I hate it when people say, cause I've heard people say, Oh, you're brave. You know, you've tried to, one, I don't like that because it implies that it's something you should be brave about and just being yourself. But I don't think I, I don't think it's a brave thing. It was something I had to do because I don't think I'm particularly, uh, brave about pushing myself in other areas of my life where I don't push myself enough and don't do things that I should.

[00:18:17] But, but, but yeah, being a woman, you know, doing it when I thought for 35 years, I never could. And I'm, I'm not making assumptions. I'm sure you've been through those same thoughts. That's never going to happen to me. And to be able to be, and is the most proud thing in the world. Cause I never thought it would, you know, whatever anybody else thinks. Well, yeah. Yeah. It's a fascinating world. And, and, and we all know what it feels like to be confident.

[00:18:44] So I think working on confidence is really important. And I often think when we're going through a trans person, trans process, what we focus on our mental health challenges. And sometimes I think it's about focusing on the positive, focusing on the confidence rather than focusing on our limitations and our weaknesses and our, and our fears and being counsel.

[00:19:08] Sometimes I think that proactive coaching, pushing, cheering mentoring thing is, is, is really, really important. Yeah, no, I do. And as I say, I'm a more confident person for being able to transition than I was definitely is the case. Um, so I recommend it to anybody who wants more confidence, just transition. It's as easy as that.

[00:19:33] But I mean, uh, if that was, if that was a, but, um, yeah, this is a, but, um, but I think it's, it's a religious thing, but you know, I think it's a, it's a tangible thing. Cause I think confidence can disappear quite easily if you had a bad experience and I haven't touched ward other than stuff on social media. I mean, that's true that, that certainly knocked me, but, um, in terms of, you know, if I'd have gone out those first few times and found myself being ridiculed or something, maybe it had never regained that confidence.

[00:20:03] Maybe there's a world where the first couple of steps out went wrong and I never recovered from it. I think that's perfectly possible. Yeah. And, and, and that's it. I think trouble is sometimes looking at, um, social media is the wrong place to go. I really do. I think it's, it's, it's not, it's not useful unless it's some of the sort of positive Facebook sites or some of the YouTube things. And there's some really great stuff on TikTok at the moment, even more really good stuff.

[00:20:32] And, uh, I think, um, yeah, I think it's, it's positive. So focus on confidence and less on, um, on the negative. And I think, and as you say, when in doubt transition. Yeah. A rule for life. I think we could run like a series of training courses for people and just say that, well, the issue is that you haven't transitioned yet. Well, some of the, some of the terms and some of the people in America seem to think we're some sort of ideological cult. So maybe it should lead into that.

[00:21:02] We could, this could be a new idea around, um, I mean, I mean, for a while, I, I, I had a thought that instead of trying to lose weight, I'm just trying to make everybody I know fatter. Yeah. It's a simple look. It didn't really work. Not easier. Giving people chocolate. Go on. You know, but no, but yes, it's weird to talk about confidence because on one level, I would say I'm not a confidence person in many areas, but I clearly have some confidence.

[00:21:28] Doing this podcast is, um, as required to push myself a little bit. I think it is. Tell us, tell people about that. Well, just in terms of, you know, um, cause, um, and maybe, I don't know if I take much persuading cause I do like talking about myself. That's a narcissist for you, but, but thinking that one-on-one there's a confidence with why would anybody want to listen to, it's almost like the imposter thing, which goes in hands with confidence.

[00:21:56] Why on earth would anybody want to listen when I got to say on any subject? There's always that at the back of my mind. And, uh, and would I just, um, you know, would I just not have anything to say clearly? Sadly, I've got far too much to say most of the time, but I think, you know, it isn't something that, you know, when I speak to people that, and I say to people, why are you gonna have to come on our pod? And you can see, well, I'm not sure what I'm talking, you know, it's, it's something that you get used to though. I think I, I, I mean, I love doing it.

[00:22:26] So, um, whether anybody listens or not, but, uh, yeah, I mean, I've never, it strikes me, Jill. You've never been somebody that in, in many aspects of life has been short of confidence. Would it be fair to say? I think it would be massively unfair to say that. Would it? I'm not talking about, but the, but in other areas, you know, you've, I think, uh, I think, but the thing is, you see, I had a, I was a, um, I had an issue, a career in the performing arts.

[00:22:55] And I think once you've experienced like athletes have, once you've experienced like people that on strictly have, once you've experienced that hugely terrifying, like you did with your speechifying. Once you've experienced that hugely terrifying personal risking process of performing or doing something in front of a large crowd, which is one of the four biggest fears in life for human beings. Then actually a lot of it, a lot of the other stuff falls into place. I remember doing, um, yeah, well, that's a story for another day.

[00:23:24] I tell you what, the one I was going to tell you there is a story for another day, but. I will definitely have that, but, uh, but now I'm going to confidently say that it's time to go and I shall hopefully see you next week. I will confidently agree. And we will, uh, see you all next week. Take care. Bye bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of Transvox. It's been a joy to have you with us.

[00:23:50] Um, if you want to, um, make contact with us, you can contact us at gillian at transvox.co.uk. And if you'd like to support the work we do, please go to Patreon and go to page Transvox. And all of our money goes to our nominated charity. And Jen, you've chosen the charity for the next number of episodes. Which one have you chosen? Our charity is called Beyond Reflections, which is a charity that provides support,

[00:24:18] and counselling to trans people, non-binary people, and their friends and their families across the UK. An amazing charity doing some amazing work. Really important. So please, if you can give. Great. And if you want to go and have a look at Beyond Reflections, it's beyond-reflections.org.uk. And, uh, but as I say, if you'd like to make a contribution to what we're doing, because we love to help the people who help us.

[00:24:41] Uh, again, if you've got ideas for, um, the show, things you'd like to ask us, questions, comments, applause, or, um, brick baths, feel free to send it all in to Jillian at franzvox.co.uk. Until the next time, goodbye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.