Transvox - Making Ice Cream from Bad News

[00:00:07] Hi and welcome back to Transvox. Jenny and I have just been sitting down in our pre-recording sort of state for the last hour and five minutes, completely distracted talking about all sorts of different things. And now we're looking forward to putting together a Transvox podcast for our wonderful audience. And it's been a week of weeks this week. It's been fantastic. Everything's been rosy. Everything to do with transgender people has been fantastic. Trans people are welcomed in sports.

[00:00:36] Everybody in the Premier League who's gay has come out. It's been a wonderful week. Everybody's been given free surgery for the next 150 years. Anything you want if you're trans. Oh, that doesn't sound right, Jen. Am I reading from the wrong paper? No, I think you've been eating some very dodgy mushrooms or something or... So when you come out of your delusions, there's not really quite been like that, has it? But has it ever thus at the moment that it's a tough week to be trans?

[00:01:02] We do know that when anybody's slagging off the trans community, there's lots of nefarious stuff going on in a different direction. Because we are, along with immigrants, we are the proverbial dead cat issue, aren't we? Oh, definitely.

[00:01:13] And it's just... It's been a week of seeing the vast array of anti-trans people coming to the fore. And I think I listened. I was driving in the car the other day and I heard the news that our esteemed, worshipful leader, head of the white nationalist movement running the United States at the moment, has issued another supreme diktat that there's no such thing as transgender people coming to the Olympics in the States.

[00:01:42] So is it the Olympics or the World Cup? One of those two things. It's the Olympics. The Olympics, that's right. Yeah. And he's talking about the cravenness of these Olympic bodies, Steve Overt, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was listening to something on the radio and listening to some people saying, yes, that's absolutely right. Biological sex is all that matters. Blah, blah, blah. And Sharon Davies told me... Oh my God. It must be true. And of course, then there's a quote from Sharon Davies. Oh my God, look what's crawled out of the woodwork. And Sharon Davies references, guess who?

[00:02:11] To the person that cannot be named. And she's all over the press saying, this is marvellous news. This is all about, this is all about how anti-trans people have been the victim, the people, the architects of their own downfall. So it's been a panoply, if that's a word, of anti-trans nonsense this week, isn't it?

[00:02:32] I've never underestimated the ability for gender critical, crazy, anti-trans people to ally themselves with some of the most racist people in the world sometimes. Famously, what was it? Parker Posey when he was doing a speech. Kelly G. Minchell sharing a platform with white nationalists. It's never underestimated their ability to find allies within the far right.

[00:02:57] And the funny thing is, of all people yattering on about feminism, they're allying yourself with a completely anti-feminism group. Yeah. Which is the white nationalists, male supremacist groups in the United States. You couldn't make this up, could you?

[00:03:14] What we know is the more noise that's been generated within our community around this, it just means that there's more time for Uncle Elon, that famous South African white who would be digging his paws into the contracts and financial lucre in the federal government.

[00:03:33] Yeah, it's basically the world at the moment is, don't look at the genocide, the fact that all public service is going to crap, that you've got no money and billionaires are taking over the world. Look, there's a scary trans person over there. There's never been a more, as you said, dead cat, oh my God, it's a tactic than just pointing at trans people and mocking them.

[00:03:57] That's what it seems to be. And whatever you think about our community, it is surely so down the list of priorities that people need to be concerned about as to be beyond scrolling down to find it. It's just nuts, if you think about it. It is. From an objective point of view. It's actually, and the only way for me that I actually think that, the only defence we have is hilarity now, because these people, I know they're very dangerous, but they're too stupid. They're just too, it's in the realms of comedy now.

[00:04:26] This is one of those Channel 4 comedies that you'd write. I think I was listening to Armando Iannucci talking about The Thick of It or something and saying you couldn't write that now. No, you couldn't. And can you imagine a trans writer sitting down and saying, let's imagine a trans apocalypse where you get a leader who's actually wiping us out of existence? And that's exactly what he's doing in the States at the moment. Trans people are becoming non-people. This is extraordinary, really.

[00:04:53] If you objectively sit back and look at it, it's not that long ago. Everybody was pretty much supportive of a community. Didn't really care much either. They were generally supportive. There were positive bills. And then in the space of sort of 10 years, really, it has gone nuts for the population that, the best estimate is certainly less than 1% of the population. Absolutely crazy. You would think that half the population was trans the amount of press we get.

[00:05:24] It's absolutely crazy. But yeah, it's the sports. We signed that bill. It's basically kicking trans people out of the army and the forces. It's absolutely... What point is that to them to do that? Okay, let's have less people in the army if that's what you want. That's fine. The good thing now in the American army is that they don't have far to go to find an enemy. They don't have to do all this traveling all over into the Far East. They just have to wander into Canada, don't they? Because they don't need cars anymore. They can just paddle across the lakes.

[00:05:55] It is the craziest of crazy times. I think every time you think, oh, the world can't get it. Do you know what? This sounds very flippant and unfair because so many people and so many have suffered. But long for the days of COVID being the one thing in the news that we had to worry about for a year. It is absolutely mind-bending. And we can laugh about it, but... We have to. Almost have to. Because I think that...

[00:06:20] Because actually what bullies fear is strong people who laugh at them. Because the hardest thing to defend yourself at is ridicule. And it's time we started standing up and ridiculing these people. Because these people are blowhard cowards, aren't they? And you listen to some of the stuff that's been said about trans people. You just listen to it and you think that you're irredeemable. Yes, the people on the far... Some of the people we've mentioned already in the podcast. They're unsavable. And that's fine.

[00:06:48] And the thing is, our rights being wiped out. It's just the prelude to women's rights being wiped out. And part of me can quite imagine the time when there's a bunch of anti-feminist campaigners being pursued down the seat by white nationalists shouting, go back and have more babies. And you've got your people like J.K. Rowling crying in the streets because this is what it's led to. That's quite... Elon Musk is a bit obsessed about population. Of course.

[00:07:17] Apparently, about under babies. Under white people. Not enough white people. Can't imagine that from a South African white person, can you? Wow. Odd. And of course, if you look at some of the tech bros, a lot of them are from South Africa. It's weird, though, isn't it? It's weird, though. So if you look, Silicon Valley at one point was liberal and progressive. And they were. And suddenly, and it's probably due to these individuals and obviously the influence of Trump, how that's turned around. And the tech industry is seen now as far from that. Now, interesting.

[00:07:47] That's interesting because I was listening to... I can't remember his first name because you know how famous I am and useful I am with names. Saka. I think he's named... He was on Shark Tank in the States. Very famous. And he was whining on recently about... And I get this. And I think this is the fault of DEI people. Or let's just get that straight out because you know my views. I don't agree. What he says is that... What he says is that actually the liberals have spent too long telling people what they can't do,

[00:08:14] talking down to them, saying you're wrong, saying you can't say this and you can't say that. And that... No, I'm not saying this is right or wrong as an argument. I'm just saying this is the argument. This is the argument. And I think that's an easy argument to portray. That sort of we've been shackled. We're in the yoke. We're being disadvantaged because actually people are rebelling against our enormous white male privilege. And I think this is the narrative. And I don't think our community is thinking enough about this.

[00:08:42] I disagree with you on the main about the importance of DEI work in terms of the wider context. And I know that's not what you're saying. But I think that's... Personally, I think it's a nonsense argument. I do. There's no evidence. And you can say the fact that these things turned around. My understanding is Trump was pretty positive about trans people before 2016. Yeah, of course. Yeah. You were talking only about 10 years. Nothing's fundamentally changed about our community or any DEI stuff.

[00:09:12] What's changed is the discourse and what it is. It's been used as a... Yes, he can say that is why because everybody's rebelling against this stuff that we've been told what to do. But the truth of the matter is, it's you and the people in power who've been telling people to be upset about it. People aren't genuinely upset about it. But they've been told to be upset about it. They've been told that being woke is a reason planes crashed. We know it's nonsense. They're being told this by the press and the people in power.

[00:09:41] So I don't genuinely believe that people are going in their daily lives, even the people that we would say have privilege, are going, oh, God, bought all this, ain't it? You will get some of that. There's a generation of some people. There will be people who will go, oh, God, there's all this new stuff and so whatever. Let's go, correctness, gone mad. All these sort of terms run around a long time. But the scale of it is people are being told they should be mad about it. And then they're going, oh, yeah, should be. That's the problem.

[00:10:10] I don't think populations are because people are genuinely individuals. Anyway, you said. But I think the invective heaped on our community is nothing like the invective heaped on immigrants. So I think, you know. I wouldn't disagree that the two bogies are immigrants. And we've seen it in this country and trans people at the moment. Those are the bogies in the world. And you've seen them both be used in this country by far.

[00:10:37] And actually all the parties, the Labour Party and Democrats have become more hardliner. Overton-Windon shifted. But trans rights across the board have been. There are parts of politics that are still supportive. But they've used that because it's a distraction. And it is all a distraction. But I disagree with that sentiment that it's we've gone too far with EDI stuff. I don't think that's the reason. I think people are being told by people in power and influence.

[00:11:03] Because that's the way to distract people from what's really happening in terms of the reason they're poorer is because we're getting richer. That's how capitalism works to a degree. Back on the capitalism, I think. Well, ultimately, these things, these tech bros, it's capitalism, right? It's all about getting that money. And at the same time as these things have happened, inequality's grown, hasn't it? And what they're saying with immigrants and trans people is those are the people you should blame.

[00:11:29] I don't genuinely believe that attitude that we've gone too far that we should go back because we've upset people. I genuinely – no, you can disagree with me. I just don't think that. I think it's because people have been told that. And if you read it enough times in the Daily Mail, you'll believe it. You're having a lovely argument on your own there. I'm sorry, I'm arguing with myself on that. You are? I've not said a word yet. But the funny thing is that luckily there's nothing bad happening in the UK at the moment. No, lovely. The UK's always nice.

[00:12:00] We've had a couple of bits of nonsense, a changing room, a bit of hoo-ha in Scotland somewhere with a nurse and a doctor, which of course has splashed all over the BBC. A complete storm in a teacup. I wonder how many industrial tribunals have gone on in the courts over the last two weeks. And that's the one that's all over the BBC. No, they're always reported. Just for context, there's a nurse, I think I might get this right, was suspended for complaining of the way they handled an issue of not wanting to share a changing room.

[00:12:29] With a trans woman, a doctor as a trans woman. And I think the nurse has taken them to a tribunal against the employer who acted, in my view, rightly in saying the nurse's attitude was out with their policies. And that gets splashed up. But you're absolutely right. Anytime a tribunal touches on trans, be it a teacher that wants to miss gender pupils that's got sacked or everything else, or going back to my I've saw force data, it gets front and centre on all the media.

[00:13:00] And everybody. I think it is a nightmare. However, the interesting thing about the media is the, it's all gay media, because I tell you what, there's some really good investigative journalism. And there's an organisation, I don't know if we can say the full name, but it's Queer AF. Queer as fuck. We can have, yeah. It's our podcast. We can see what we want. We've now two fucks in our podcast. Yes. Before we get a 15 rating. I think that's how it works. We've already said JK Rowling. So that was the worst thing of all. After that, I'm going to focus somewhere lower.

[00:13:31] Anyway, they've discovered this footage of your, one of your favourite people, which is Wes Streeting, who'd met with Bayswater parents and has talked about his traumatic experiences. And this is interesting, because he'd met with trans people who'd, just before his recent announcement about puberty blockers, and he had this emotional experience, and then he took them all away. But these, this Bayswater lot are linked with trying to propagate conversion therapy.

[00:13:59] And this is our man, Wes Streeting, talking to these people. And it is interesting how, the fact that Wes Streeting's gay doesn't mean he's not a complete JK Rowling. When was this, Gilles? I didn't know. It was reported in the press on the 7th Affair, but I think it would be, it had been discovered on the 7th Affair, but it had taken place earlier last year or something. Oh, never before the election. Oh, right. I think they were in power. And he's doing such a marvellous job with the National House Service.

[00:14:28] It's good to know that he's spending time discriminating against trans people. It's good to know that we're high enough for his agenda to be earned. Oh, indeed. This Bayswater group, they're against, they're for conversion therapy for trans people. Is that basically? That's the one. Is that what they basically? They conduct conversion therapy and advocate for forms of abuse towards their children. Oh, that's okay. Oh, so that may be parents of trans people. And he's spending time with those people. Yeah, it is that thing about who you choose to listen to, isn't it?

[00:14:57] It says a lot. I know, I think he said that, and the Labour Party is saying they are still implementing a conversion therapy ban that would include trans people. Because I think the Guk, where the Tories are going to introduce a ban that excluded trans people. Am I right on that? Yeah. And now the Labour Party have said they're going to include it. I do wonder what the amendments might be to soften it, because I can imagine they'll try and do that. Yeah, they're rowing back on it.

[00:15:25] They're saying conversion therapy for LGB, but not T. What's interesting is that... I thought the Labour Party... Sorry, I thought the Labour Party had said they include trans. That's a policy, anyway. So they say. I think they're rowing back on it. But this thing about the base water and Genspect and people like this, these got outed by... Do you remember trans kids deserve better? They sat on a ledge outside and... That's right. And we talked about them and they had a protest at Victoria Station.

[00:15:55] Oh, yeah. They've escalated a lot of this. And it just goes to show, doesn't it, there's a ton of stuff going on behind the scenes. I actually think part of the problem here is that there's a load of brilliant trans activism going on. And I know I'm part of some things which are going on behind the scenes. But we don't shout about it enough to our own community, because there isn't a way of being able to have a pipeline to all of the community. So a lot of people are probably sitting at home thinking, oh, my God, we're in trouble. Nothing's happening. We're all... There is.

[00:16:24] There's tons going on. Well, the thing is, where do you shout about it now? That's the problem. The print media aren't... The mainstream media aren't going to print it, and they're not going to broadcast it. Lots of us have left social media because that's not a safe space anymore. So you're right. You're dead right about that. But I just don't know almost where you're going to get that shouted about. But I'll tell you what, there's a couple of things that made me smile this week in a positive way. I saw today, and again, I don't think this is new, but I was...

[00:16:53] Because I'm down with the kids. I was watching a bit of TikTok. And I hadn't watched a little for a while, but... Because actually, I've noticed that since the ban. You've had to re-sign up to a lot of the trans feeds and such. Some really good ones. Some really funny, talented trans people out there doing really good work. But I bumped onto an article from Whoopi Goldberg, who'd been talking about the White House press secretary. I think she's called Caroline Leavitt, or Leavitt. Yes.

[00:17:22] Who'd made some comment about how we shouldn't be woke. And Whoopi Goldberg took her to task and saying, The reason that you're standing here pontificating about anti-woke is because of woke. That's the reason you've got this. And I thought it was... You know, when you have elders in the community actually speaking out, and they're not frightened, they can tell everybody to do. JK rolling off if they need to. And I just thought it was a magnificent moment. And I just thought, if anybody's not seen it,

[00:17:51] go onto socials and just put in Whoopi Goldberg and woke. And it is hilarious because she's really cross, but still amazingly erudite. It's absolutely wonderful. And it actually talks about wokeism and how woke's about... It's not being woke as an attack on all women. I mean, she doesn't talk about trans women as part of that, but I don't think Whoopi Goldberg is anti-trans at all, so that's good. No, it's lost all sense of meaning, woke. Yeah?

[00:18:19] Where it originally came from, and even worse now, it's just used as a throwaway word, either mainly meaning anti-trans, but anything in terms of equality or whatever. So it has lost its meaning. But yeah, I mean, I'm going to have to look at that, Jill. That sounds a good watch. And there was, I think, one of your mob from your party... It's not my party. I don't think I'm even sure I remember now. I know, I'm just pulling your leg. There was a question asked sometime in Parliament this week

[00:18:49] about trans and LGBT generally policies and what was going on and what's happening, such like. So it's very lovely to see allies standing up in Parliament and actually saying, what is actually happening? And I think it was someone from Luton, I can't remember, asking the question to the Women's Inequalities Minister. So maybe it was a Tory woman. Can you imagine saying that? Yeah, but you say that. I was doing a bit this month, this month,

[00:19:17] Theresa May's government trying to improve the Gender Recognition Act in a really positive way, positive for trans people, that was actually presented by Penny Mordent, who was nearly leader of the Conservative Party. So it's a weird world where, you know, as I say, who could have thought of anybody Conservative now trying to improve things? But then again, I guess politicians go with the wind because Theresa May voted against the repeal of Section 28. Maybe she saw the way things were changing

[00:19:46] and maybe give her credit for that. Oh, I do understand. I don't agree, but I do understand the sort of religious connotations of Theresa May. But I think a lot of Tories are quite socially liberal, but fiscally... Sorry. Sobal, yeah. They're fiscally Tory, but socially liberal. And a lot of Anglican vicars and priests have actually been more socially liberal over the course of years. But you're right. I think most politicians are told to vote and they do what they're told. I think that's all it is. They go with the wind.

[00:20:16] I think you're right. I'm not sure most of Conservatives now are. But certainly, I suppose, under Cameron's government introducing equal marriage, he did that. He didn't get his full party support, but he did that. And despite the many terrible things David Cameron did, they'll give him credit for that. And the same for Theresa May, I think. And of course, there's been a massive, apparently, LGBT event in Parliament this week. So Lindsay Hoyle, that's... Yeah, the speaker. That person with such a backbone has...

[00:20:44] Sorry, I've never forgiven Lindsay Hoyle for quite a lot of stuff that went on with the last Parliament. But he hosted an LGBT thingy this week. And it did make me laugh, because it's that thing about if you've got famous people in the room, politicians like to be around famous rich people. And I always think this is the secret, how we move the community. Yeah. I'll never forget how Angie Lerania was supportive of me when I had a problem in social media. I've been on... I was in the audience when she was on Question Time.

[00:21:13] And there are other people who have been actively... So I still think there's more in there. That's why I am confident the Labour Party won't introduce... won't keep trans people out of that conversion therapy ban. But that's good to hear that there are still positives. It's a really weird pull and push, isn't it? Oh, I forgot to say. I forgot to say. I forgot to say. I forgot to say. Do you know what I forgot to say? I forgot to say. That when the trans sport thing came out... Oh, yeah.

[00:21:40] GB News reached out and asked for trans people to go on and be guests on GB News. Oh, right. Now, I know Joanne Lockwood for all sorts of different reasons. Someone I think a lot of. And they're going to be a podcast... I'm going to guest on their podcast and vice versa. They're coming to TransVox as well. But Joanne Lockwood regularly appears on GB News and she goes in as a trans woman to fight the corner of trans people. She's a professional... Yes. ...the professional speakers association. Oh, wow. And she's very erudite, super bright.

[00:22:09] And she goes in and she gets the most appalling abuse. But she is... She came to an event that I was at on behalf of someone we both know, Paul, and last year. And she is so funny and so dry about this whole subject. And she's like me in that sense of thinking the only way to take these people on is just to laugh at them because actually it's the one thing they fear is being shown up by bright, intelligent, witty people. Because these people have no sense of humour. They have no moral code.

[00:22:39] And they have basics, a bit like sheep. There's nothing... There's no more greater joy at the moment. If you can find it, the bit of video where Ben Shapiro, who is one of the most prominent... ...and who trans is... It's an event... I think Jubilee is the channel on YouTube where he's actually been surrounded by a load of young liberal people. Liberal people. And they come and sit down and speak to him and debate him. He's this guy who likes to be a debater. And this trans man plonks himself down in front of him. And Ben Shapiro doesn't know he's a trans.

[00:23:08] And he starts talking to him. And he absolutely completely... As the kids say, he mogged Ben Shapiro. Completely dominated him because he was so taken aback. Because he called this person bruv and all that and gendered him properly and then realised they were a trans man. It's such a joy watching those takedowns because what they can't deal with is the fact that facts and logic are not on the side. Ultimately, their arguments disappear under any scrutiny. All of them do.

[00:23:36] All of the arguments about some of the laws they want to do, they all fall apart because they're unworkable. They are unworkable. All the single-sex space arguments are unworkable unless they're going to check people's genitals as they enter a toilet. It's all nonsense. Even if you try to bring it in, it's never going to work. One of the podcasts I like listening to is the rest of politics in America. Oh, yes. Which is good. And I remember the mooch talking about this. He's an interesting character.

[00:24:05] And he says... Oh, it's really interesting. He said, but in an American accent. I can't use an American accent. I'm not going to do it. I can't have it now. And what he said was, in America, there's no such thing as red and blue, only green. And he said, all that matters in America is making money. And it's actually, if by smashing the trans economy, if you are picking on the trans community, it makes a stack of cash, then we'll pick on them. And I just remember sitting and thinking there

[00:24:33] and just started in my head to start totting up the numbers. Oh, Gill, are you coming over from the dark side of unfettered capitalism to join us on the... No, I was thinking it was the reverse. I was thinking if we added up the amount of money that trans people spend on operations and healthcare and medical and clothes and such, we're actually quite an interesting little community that spend a tonne of cash. I've always been a shopper, and I have got...

[00:25:02] I've gone mad. That's true. We do have to... When we're transitioning, you end up having to have two wardrobes on the go. But I don't know we're going to help Rachel Reeves with a growth problem, though. Do you not think that if we actually converted more people to trans? I don't think we can trans spend our way over it. And most of the people that are paying for surgery are having to go abroad, so it's disappearing. Yeah. But that's a revenue stream losing to the UK, you see. That's your takeaway, not the fact that ultimately all this has been harmed

[00:25:31] by unfettered late-stage capitalism. This is where you're going wrong. It's the capitalists. If there's money to be made, we'll do it. I always laughed during COVID, and this is a horrible example, but I always remember the example given in COVID of someone who went into the Tory party and donated five grand to the Tory party. And within COVID, that person got a £22 million PPE contract. And they'd never done PPE ever. And that money talks.

[00:26:01] And I often think to myself, in fact, I was talking to one of our guests on the podcast, and they said with a million pounds, even with a million pounds, we couldn't make change happen. I said you could buy the Tory party for a million quid. And they would be coming out saying, free operations, this, that and the other. Are you suggesting we lean into the cronyism capitalism? Yes. We lean into it. I don't know. That's what we need. We need money. If we had money as a community, what we do is lean into, actually, and there are a lot of people who are trans

[00:26:30] who do have a lot of cash, and there's certainly a lot of people LGBT with the wider communities. Of course, there are a lot of some groups, but the vast majority are worse off because their unemployment's higher and everything else. Yeah. I've always said this, without the LGBT community, what would be Hollywood doing? There is truth. They used to talk about that horrible term, the pink pound and all that. They used to talk about that. I'm not sure as such a small part of that community,

[00:26:58] i.e. the trans non-binary community, that we really have. We're really going to solve it by political lobbying in that way, but who knows? I really do think we are missing a trick not using the same levers of power that the LGB Alliance used, and that all they did was to effectively go to Parliament, to fund lobby groups, to buy research, and to be... I think we're playing far too strong about... But where's that money... Go to the series, where's that money coming from? Exactly.

[00:27:28] Nobody's funding left progressive media. Nobody's funding left progressive voices. That's why we need to get out to the left. But this is the point in America. So one of the reasons they say Trump won was going on social media. There's loads of an ecosystem of right-wing media that is funded by billionaires, right? Right. Now, nobody's doing that. Why? Because they want the person in power that's going to give them the tax breaks to make more money. That's it, there you are. And that's it.

[00:27:57] People on the left are not going to do... Yeah, but I understand that, but that's not going to work because people on the... One, people on the left haven't got the money, generally. And there is no ecosystem. Finding a way to fund it, you have to end up being funded by small donations. That's the thing. Obama got elected by small donations. That's how he was... But that's the grassroots. What we're not going to get is funding. Even the LGB Alliance, a lot of the anti-trans money funded comes from America, came from America.

[00:28:26] We saw that back in the day. Six years ago, these were being funded and when they went out doing all the leafleting and all that, the funds were coming from there. There's nobody doing it. There's nobody reaching out to us doing that, are there? We said we're going to do a light-hearted, amusing podcast today and now you're banging on about nothing politics. We said that pre... when we were chatting beforehand. And you know you're wrong. I don't think we've succeeded very well, if I'm being honest. It's very difficult. I think there's some key things, takeaways I wanted. I do think there's a heck of a lot of...

[00:28:55] And I know seeing some of the work that's going on in health, seeing some of the work that's going on on the legal side, there's a heck of a lot of work going on to dispute and kick out the cast nonsense. There's tons of work going on behind the scenes. Yeah. I was talking to a group of trans people, realised, and they've just said we didn't know this stuff was happening. Yeah. And it's interesting because if what is missing is that communication for the whole community, then perhaps that's something that needs to be thought about. Yeah. Almost that's why we did the positive podcast is getting trans voices and visibility out there

[00:29:24] as a way of influencing because we do know that people's attitudes of trans people are changed when they meet trans people, right? Yeah. And they realise... Not us. Obviously, maybe not me and you. That may be a stretch, but most, most come as normal trans people who don't talk for a living. But that's true. So there is something about being visible that is so very difficult, isn't it? I don't know what the answer is, but I do think there's hope because as I said... You know something I've discovered recently

[00:29:53] that we might keep this for another podcast, but actually, because I know we still got our famous Star Trek podcast to crank out. Oh, gosh, yes. But I want to talk maybe in the next podcast or one after that about being trans and being entrepreneurial. I'm quite surprised at how many really quite entrepreneurial trans people there are. And I've just got a few ideas about that. That would be really interesting. There are some interesting parts of our community. Obviously, these are, you know,

[00:30:23] broad brush in a sense. But we know in terms of the tech industry and IT, there are lots of trans people working in IT. Yeah, I often see lots of trans people in the arts and being entrepreneurial. So there's something about the trans experience or us as a community that may be leaning into that. I'm really interested because I know you've got so much, I don't know, nothing about entrepreneurialism. I had an ice cream van for two weeks. That's as far as I wasn't good at it.

[00:30:53] Of the lip never beaten? Indeed. But I never ate so many flakes in my life. If you had a box full of flakes for the 99s. But I had, that's not my, I'd love to hear more jokes I've heard the story about Greg Davies and when he bought, he said he's heard that they were a discontinuing Caramac. So he went down and bought 200 boxes or 200 packets of Caramac. Remember Caramac? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's come back. Chocolate. Apparently what he did is he went down and said he bought the last 200 bars

[00:31:22] and he said, and then he said, when did you do that? And he said, three weeks ago and he said, and how many do you think are left? That is true. I did, yeah. I was not a good ice cream seller and I did just sit and eat a lot of flakes so I can relate to Greg. But yeah, it's not something I know much about so I've been really fascinated to listen to you on and discuss that with you, Jill because yeah, I think, and that's again a way of being visible as well. Being an entrepreneur, being visible, showing, I think it fits in with that. I think there's at least

[00:31:51] 99 reasons why this will be a good episode. Is that right? Very good, like the 99 then. Do they still have 99s now? God, this sounds like I'm in a home in the last years. Do they have those things now? Yeah, do they have 99s now? We still have ice cream rounds up here where we go around singing songs and there's still that horrible red stuff they used to put on. Oh yeah, I love that juice. I'll do a whole podcast about my ice cream rounds but I was not a good

[00:32:21] sales ice cream person to be honest. The kids would come up to me and they'd have like 10 pence and say, can we have a 99? And I said, I don't have enough money and they looked sad so I just gave it to them anyway. So I don't think I'm ever cut out for business, Jill, I'll be honest. I wonder why that is. I wonder why, it's funny how ice cream is, I wonder why ice cream is so evocative. We really do like them, don't we? I do like ice cream, don't we? Yeah. But yes, yeah, that's one for the future then, yes. Trans and, I can't say the word entrepreneur,

[00:32:51] I can't say it, entrepreneur. All I can think is this, having an ice cream van is a real cream come true. Crikey. Listen, we'd better end the podcast if you're going to get, if you're going to get, did you hear about the ice cream van? Get hyper-focused on ice cream puns. For God's sake, save us. One screw, smooth creamer. Save us, please shut, please close it down, Jill. I had an ice cream today, this is my secondary to enough of that. If I didn't know better,

[00:33:21] you've got your computer open on ice cream puns right now. Yes, on that note, you better. See you next week, glorious listener. Yeah, take care everyone. Bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of Transvox. It's been a joy to have you with us. If you want to make contact with us, you can contact us at jillian at transvox.co.uk and all of our money goes to our

[00:33:50] nominated charity and Jen, you've chosen the charity for the next number of episodes, which you want to be chosen? Our charity is called Beyond Reflections, which is a charity that provides support and counselling to trans people, non-binary people and their friends and their families across the UK. An amazing charity doing some amazing work, really important. So, pleased if you can give. Great. And if you want to go and have a look at Beyond Reflections, it's beyond-reflections.org.uk and, but as I say,

[00:34:20] if you'd like to make a contribution to what we're doing because we love to help the people who help us. Again, if you've got ideas for the show, things you'd like to ask us, questions, comments, applause, or brickbats, feel free to send it all in to jillian at transvox.co.uk. Until the next time, goodbye. Bye-bye.