Transvox - In the news this week - Gender Clinics and Puberty Blockers

[00:00:00] I am welcome back to Transvox and in front of me, we splendid after her week coaching the stoke, ladies' hockey team is my old friend Jim. How was it? It's hard work and it was particularly

[00:00:24] difficult as I can't ice skate that made it particularly challenging to be honest but I quite rocked the shoulder pad so there is that, but I am fine, Gillian. How were you? I was actually thinking about you the night because I was watching the great pot of your

[00:00:39] throw-down. Oh, yes. I wonder, I mean, because you're from Stoke, so I'm assuming that you will, you know what about pottery? Oh, I'm cutting through, we're going to play through our bloods here. It's literally filmed, mower-nathom mouse, that's the pottery all used to go

[00:00:57] there as a kid. So yeah, it's so proud of that, I know, I said he said yes. I watched out a civic pride but also it was won by a non-binary contest on the head before last. What was

[00:01:08] it? And what really was it? It was not mentioned just referred to as a head-up or through, which is, so it's a very inclusive program as well and I love it. I think I've seen it

[00:01:16] a lot of years. What's this series now being starting from the scratch, so I'm at the end of the series four, so don't tell me anything after that. I don't know, I've slightly spoiled

[00:01:26] it for you, but I think it's good how it was not bi-rific. It wasn't stated, but it was just natural. I love that when we're treated just as normal, right? And yeah, but great, great program,

[00:01:37] therefore, you should watch that program because it's good for my city. I'm that's a little, but I think one of the pottery host is an unboundary pottery. Oh no, it was built

[00:01:50] in the first, this is a trans woman. There rose the kiln, a tecco, there's a potter itself, she's she got some really interesting pottery, quite haven't God stuff and she's brilliant and she's been good on Twitter and stuff. Yeah, she's proper. She's got a brilliant sense of style

[00:02:07] where it's really long skirts, and both eyes, I just think it's cool. Yes, a lot to other continents, you know, but the grows that you get in a row of clothes. So it's not only is it

[00:02:17] brilliant because it's about pottery and my city, but it's dead in clucish there. Everybody listen and should watch it. Oh, catch up. Well, it's been a funny week this week,

[00:02:26] and that's about time we talked about the news and the first thing after today is we need to talk about ferrets. Right? So as you know, Liz Trust brought through a bill to to change the biological definition of female to woman to use the biological stuff. I'll

[00:02:49] I'll get to the end of the sentence and part of it eventually makes sense, but Liz Trust brought this act together and a bunch of politicians talked, talked it out, didn't it? They're filibuster,

[00:02:58] it. My talk is a ferrets for about two hours. Oh, do we talk about the ferret now as we come there? I think it's going to become the adopted, the animal, the trans community, I think that would be great.

[00:03:11] Oh, and more for that. I didn't know there's a ferrets, but I heard that they filibuster. It was a horrible piece of law that would have looked sort to balance for many, or says women from any women spaces, which would just be crazy. But thankfully, even the

[00:03:25] tour is talked out. So I don't think she's gone. Liz Trust has gone fully, Magga, shared a platform with Donald Trump and I think what's it robbing? Tommy Robinson was involved in the last one. She's gone, she's gone, fallen, round, crazy, but they were. And there's

[00:03:43] money in this living place. Well, lots of it and there's a woman who has famously has this socialist father who's a and who used to be part of the liberal dinner class. Like, Lady Anderson. Which, you know, and they are, you know, front of centre transphobic

[00:04:01] that reformed Mew Kay. Yeah, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, hopefully speech they talked about trans people this, you know, just what it is. There's money in there, though, there's money to go on that, um, that rabbit hole of going right

[00:04:16] wing and, you know, they all seem to want to do it now. Because it can drift on it, can't they? They can make money on it by, but the good thing is we are working on a

[00:04:25] one and out. We all have this and out this new code word. You know, bring about the ferret and, um, that's the way that we defeat the need to try the ferret. America.

[00:04:33] Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no ferrets are marable. I've been in must do. I had a friend who had a pet ferret used to walk around with it on his shoulder, but I was in the

[00:04:41] clicking, so I was put all year. More, more, is his name, well, it's not the ferret reframing. Well, yeah, yeah, a lot of ferrets, I feel the bite though, so, do they? Yeah, no, no, I'm not, I think everything about it, I don't know, think about it.

[00:04:56] But, um, yeah, we're good to see it's good to see the politicians taking the right path on that, but it's just very small victory that is in the scheme of things, I guess.

[00:05:07] You know, you've got to take away your plan, I think. Yeah. Well, all I can, uh, I want. What those guys says? How would you make a ferret laugh? I don't know, is there an actual joke here? Yeah, play, I'm going to talk about that.

[00:05:24] It's what I want. Play, play, I speak. Play, I just speak. How does that make the thing make sense, Jill? How does it make sense? No, never mind. We're a bit delirious today and it chills under the weather.

[00:05:41] And my, and I've had work on no sleep for the last two days. When you call a ferret that can play the piano? A pianist. Very release. I'm a release. It's just basically that's a work. That's just a work. The joke because, yeah.

[00:06:01] I mean, some of these, I just went on it. Ponds about ferret. It's the best. Harrow book is just use of wood. Anyway, we need to get one of these. Yeah, I think it's a real ferret. I'm quite happy to pivot to a ferret generally podcast.

[00:06:15] I'm quite happy to have how much mileage there is in that. But, you know, well, I suppose we were sort of avoiding the thing that we need to talk about, which is actually this week was announced the news about waiting this for appointments to gender

[00:06:33] clinics and the fact that the average was way, way, way in advance of the 18-week target had the NHS itself set itself and somehow this is appeared. There's been a lot of publicity about it, especially on the BBC.

[00:06:49] Actually, there's an article on a BBC website called Life on an NHS Transgender Waiting List so they have two or three articles from trans people who are on their talking but they're experienced. And it comes, I think, in light of as well around the case of Alice Slytman

[00:07:09] who had waited for years from appointment and I'm at a suicide at the age of 20. So, you know, this is an issue that some people, it's just a massive issue which has huge consequences for our community.

[00:07:25] And it's, you get to a point on where, you know, it seems, seems amazing. I think that we accept waiting five years for an appointment. It's absolutely, it's absolutely, um, as nothing more than scandalous but, you know,

[00:07:45] if you think about it, the hazard, his treatment and the NSFs accepts it is really important. And it does, you know, it stabilizes it helps people. It's, it's so, this everything positive about being able to transition and the NHS accepts and understands

[00:08:01] that in terms of like every right thing can conjure around the world, every medical person, you know, a study on this has said, you know, any medical bodies said this is the right thing to do.

[00:08:13] Yeah, because it's not resource to not kept, kept pace and because it's not moved on, it's so bound by these clinics, I think somebody refer to Miss Gatekeeper. Right? And the Hong Kong with the numbers, I think I heard that they're not going to specialists,

[00:08:29] they can't recruit you in a specialist, there's not a serious money problem. But how are people who's transitioning wanting some help? Don't be able to transition to have confidence, supposed to wait five, six, seven? I mean, the years, it's just ridiculous and, and because of the question,

[00:08:47] because if you've got money, you can afford to go private, I guess. But if you haven't, what do you do? It's really interesting, isn't it? Because I remember we had a guest on another trans-bem person male, Melissa telling each other, yeah, you know, and Mel talked about when

[00:09:08] each transition, it was some while ago, and I can't remember when, but she talked about the process that was in place at the time, which was called the two-year real-life tests. That's right. So basically, basically you couldn't even start getting an appointment until you'd gone through

[00:09:22] the two-year real-life tests and Mel was very much of the opinion that that was a useful process, it's difficult but useful. But it was accepted that actually you were on a journey and it was

[00:09:35] like a physical statement and the fact that you were seen as being trans and you were doing this process with inevitably lead on to appointments and it went from the touch she did it,

[00:09:44] you know, she got, I think, appointments fairly quickly and went through the process. And actually, a lot of people talked about an idea that I used to talk about that process being really cruel,

[00:09:54] but I'm actually thinking of what we sort of weigh because when it, at your first assessment that talking about things like, well, how do we know you are? How do we know you're serious about

[00:10:04] this? Well, if you've done that two-year real-life tests, that was one of the key measures, wasn't it? But actually what you've got people that's, you know, this is going to say to someone

[00:10:13] like, myself after six years, how can we tell you serious and say when I've been waiting for six years? I think you need any other piece of evidence. I mean, I don't agree personally, I don't agree with that two-year real-life tests.

[00:10:26] The vast majority of trans people have struggled and to come to the point of transition for years, that what does real-life mean? So I personally don't hold any stock with that.

[00:10:37] I take the point that it is, I guess evidence of some of these serious, but people don't go on going to transition for no good reason. They don't want to weigh them. It doesn't happen.

[00:10:49] The fact that you've not been able to be out there living transition socially transition and been out there in public when the NHS could give you, particularly in terms of HRT, would help you be able to do that, to have confidence in being able to navigate that,

[00:11:09] makes no sense to me. I take the point about, but I don't get the way you've got to be serious about it. Nobody does it on a weird mind. It's what you know, but that's what I'm talking about.

[00:11:21] It's this idea that when you go to the assessments, going one of the questions is, you know, how serious? What is your story? What is your journey? This sort of nonsense.

[00:11:29] And it's pepper because actually if you want to do, let's say, let's put it back to primary care. Let's say that all you have to do to prove to a doctor is you do the two-year.

[00:11:41] Don't worry so much about the rights of wrongs of this, but actually if you said to your GP, I've done two years. This is a demonstration of my seriousness. This is what I've done other

[00:11:51] years. I've changed my name. I've done the deep poll of done this. I've done that. Your GP could certainly recognize and say, okay, I can now prescribe you hormones because you have demonstrated the same test that you had demonstrated to the other person. And actually,

[00:12:03] we can now try your own hormones. And actually what's going on there is that you're under proper professional guidance, you know, because, you know, I go privately and without telling tells that school, I'm not convinced that you are getting proper professional support. Not necessarily

[00:12:20] the word professions are, I mean that professional incentive of doctoral professionalism, not in terms of customer service if that makes sense. Again, I think there's just two years, it's an arbitrary point. I think if you need to

[00:12:34] anybody prescribe it any, if you need to, anybody needs to know it's the right thing to do any fits, you know? So I think it's right to say, you know, is this really what you want to do?

[00:12:42] Because it takes somebody through with the effects it has and some of those are permanent, some parts of taken HRT or not, but some parts are. So yeah, I can understand that.

[00:12:52] I just don't go with it two years, come from. Yeah, well, I'm just doing for those two years. Just yeah. I'm just linking it back to the original thing. I just mad about the time,

[00:13:00] is that's what I'm saying it. But the principle of it would actually allow GPs to be parts of that service because I think there are a lot of people who self-medicate and I think that's one of

[00:13:08] the trickiest things at all. People, I was really, I was sitting on a trans chat room thing quite recently and listening to people who saying, you go to your doctor. The doctor says they want to

[00:13:19] do shared care. You release a formal complaint, raise agreements, read grievance, and then the doctor's always cared in because they're frightened of the complaints. So why don't they just let you do it? And I actually, personally, there's no reason why doctors couldn't prescribe HRT.

[00:13:33] And then because actually, I don't think I don't know how much harm it could even if you took it and then came back off it. I can see it being more of a problem for trans men

[00:13:43] because testosterone is such as so much more of a powerful hormone than the estrogen. I don't know that in their long term, I could do anything so terrible because stress months will get pregnant. So it's not affecting fertility in that sense, is it?

[00:13:58] Well, I don't know. I mean, my difference on people, but I think the point is was doctors for. I mean, I'm absolutely certain. So when I went, I absolutely accept that they need to be right in terms of any physical effects and things that people are clear.

[00:14:15] They understand what is happening to them. I don't think personally, anybody can tell somebody else whether they're serious or not about their gender or who they know they are. I just don't

[00:14:26] know who does that because there's nobody, there's nobody can say I'm a woman or other than me. There is no body. You know, I know you can say I am or I am not.

[00:14:36] So I think that's the thing where for me is going wrong. I think there needs to be it needs to be clear about any health risks to what people are taking on. You know,

[00:14:47] and tell somebody, you know, I lose facilities as a trans woman and things that I'm not going to. I accept it and understood that I was not going to be able to have natural have a

[00:14:56] you know, a contributory term in a baby, for instance. I'm just still that I know that the that needs to be understood by anybody taking any sort of medication. But the fact that somebody

[00:15:07] can pass a judgment about whether I'm serious about it or not, it just seems to me probably floor and so doctors or to be if it was hand-beneer to be handled by our GPs,

[00:15:19] such as many other things are, then it would stop all the backlogs that the clinics would solve the problem that people are and it wasn't just a hell of this. I think of the article

[00:15:30] but the panoramic of three cases last year where the coroner or the before the coroner cited a trans person who had settled a taken their own life. And you know, that says something,

[00:15:48] and the coroner drew a direct correlation between the her death and the her death in times. They said it directly contributed to her death. So that's like a legal ruling, that's actually

[00:16:03] very significant. Well, there was some time ago that rule, I mean there were a few years ago because so I think I think there was a few years ago she passed and that coroner. Because it was no

[00:16:13] tell me, I was listening to radio about this this morning and said that even now and I think it was five more or more years ago she still wouldn't have got to gender and end this clinic but as

[00:16:26] her request came in, they haven't worked through them yet and haven't worked through all the referrals. So she's still being that position. I think it's I think the situation is cruel. I

[00:16:37] lucky that I managed to get well, I mean you know I managed to get to a gendered clinic very quickly but I'd already been prescribed a TITRT before I went there because I was referred to a psychiatrist because that's what they did back in 2005. I'm

[00:16:55] was prescribed a psychiatrist HRT because at the time an interest didn't fund automatically any gender identity services. So there was no path so I was lucky in that respect with the you know in some respects because there

[00:17:11] was no obvious path. I would manage to get on HRT relatively quickly which was really helpful. So yeah it's all in that but um well yeah interesting I think it's worth watching out for

[00:17:25] that panorama program I think tonight and as good to see the BBC doing something that's actually not attacking trans people but actually trying to understand how what we're facing at the moment

[00:17:37] so that's going to be positive. Well to be fair. I was interviewed on the BBC local radio this morning and I thought actually there were extremely fair and actually what it done was that some

[00:17:54] talking heads from other people and there was no sort of there was no sort of contrary arguments. It was just this is the thing and he's the experiences of some trans people and here is someone

[00:18:04] who works in a trans charity and I thought that you know the haters might have joined in when all of us are disappears but I thought that was quite interesting and again I'm going to be on

[00:18:17] another BBC local radio station here at front of the staff to name it. So I think it's quite interesting that it's being picked up and moved along so you never know I might be sometimes these

[00:18:28] things can rock and roll and sometimes they get picked up and you know you get onto the broader media so quite like that happened tonight if that's possible nice to get so why they're

[00:18:39] good to see if that won the podcast name in there if I possibly can. Oh God yeah yeah do give the podcast a shout out to them but yes it might by the time I listen as well here this

[00:18:53] it will have been done but you could probably get hold of it on BBC sounds so which local radio is it been a solo you know so that the small thing in a box or an oxygen

[00:19:04] this evening. Oh I'll definitely have a I will definitely have a listen and Jill. I was hoping to try to take a look at the screen. I'll try to tackle you in disagree

[00:19:14] but if you get the phone in while you're on the interview with me deciding to disagree with the point of may that would be like usual. We've got a caller in and you can even have a stoke on your

[00:19:25] screen. I'll give the task for the sake of it. Just come from coaching the ladies. I'm absolutely not detailed out. No but it's got out to both of us and it's a

[00:19:42] we're making a lot of it it's a grim situation and I feel sorry for those people that are on desperately wanted to transition and they're not getting any help from what is supposed to be

[00:19:54] a progressive health service and that shame is really because all the countries are managed into to provide dress. I did sort of strain to the territory of woke and political stoking up tensions against the community and the rise of hate. It's not something

[00:20:17] to do to get to political but I think that needed to be said so you know that's quite interesting as well because I think the guidance that the NHS gets from the government

[00:20:28] actually sets a tone of what the government for what the NHS are up to and I really do believe that the majority of the NHS are great. They're absolutely fantastic and you meet individuals and they've never found anybody in the NHS. I'm sure they're all but I'm

[00:20:44] actually personally found any problems with the NHS at all and any of these departments have ever worked with their own trans people. So I suspect that the guidance they have is coming

[00:20:53] from the government. Now I agree. I mean I'd say I work for a couple of trusts and have had nothing but support from the very top of every level in terms of the work

[00:21:08] we would do as a charity in the work that we're trying to do to improve trends awareness and etc. So I have nothing but positivity that from colleagues I'm proud to have the NHS but

[00:21:18] it is centrally how what priorities and you do feel that this has been influenced by a government and we have had recently just again in the news this week that they've uh the NHS is going

[00:21:30] to stop providing pubity blockers as a as a kind of pathway. I think it's capturing research so there's a few of the very few young trans people that are able to get on to pubity blockers

[00:21:44] because it wasn't many that were able to do that and now not allowed that yet most of the countries have recognised that that's a sensible care pathway. I've been lost it for

[00:21:54] assist people I was just a trans people do you know? No yes so they've only brought to you for trans people so for cisgenial people so I think it was it was it early onset pubity or something

[00:22:06] and I think it's on cancer so they've not given you blockers a group of scourve assists gender young people but not for trans people because got for better you know a young person those

[00:22:17] who they are I mean you know it's just I think it's so few people but it makes it it's a statement it makes and it's so so poor it doesn't ban it because you can access it privately if you can

[00:22:28] afford because you know these things aren't banned it's just the NHS is now not going to support the use yes and it makes it wonder and it makes you wonder that plastic thing you know

[00:22:40] the evidence isn't there well the evidence is there what they're saying is the evidence isn't there for someone to be proven to someone who's you know who doesn't want to believe anything to read

[00:22:51] so even if they do the research which is staggering to think there's no research being done I just do not believe that and don't believe it I just don't believe that at all and if even if there

[00:23:01] even if the research hasn't been done then all the data will have been kept and the research could be easily produced you know in months rather than years there'll be an academic out there who can crunch that data pretty quickly well there's surveys all around the surveys across

[00:23:16] the world they've sort of seen some America that the reference how you know correctly appropriately applied puberty blockers are real positive and gives a young trans person the ability to then you know probably understand themselves that public cope with that dysphoria and then have the

[00:23:35] chance to go on HRT when they're older and and you know then those pu those permanent things that happen to us in puberty that we have to live with that I have to live when you and

[00:23:47] I have to live with the rest of our lives what happened to a puberty and can do not how doesn't have to be for some young people are they're able to understand themselves through and at that age you

[00:23:59] know I think it's really sad that that's not going to be available. Well yes it's a bliss of people to get the decision is not so boom yeah this is this is this is the narrative isn't it

[00:24:10] is used to it's all part of that piece but yeah so um yes you know it's been a grumbic but I was taken by something that happened at Blackpool Council have you seen this which Blackpool Council have decided on there on there two of their crossing points

[00:24:31] if you know Blackwell I know you still work with my own blackpool well it's not the most well you know it's it's okay but it's oh I just hope he's go to Blackpool when we young people

[00:24:43] we'll see the last trip it's just not the road but it's not the road but he's there yeah we all go to Blackpool from at some point in our eyes along with instead you know well apparently the start

[00:24:52] of pushing a rainbow flags across the crossing the crossings the river crossings which is really nice idea isn't that well I've seen it and some sort of such as as well and I've seen

[00:25:07] perhaps in the trans-private because as well on crossing and so you see you know but that's been London or sort of brightened the biggest cities but it's really good that Blackpool are doing

[00:25:16] and so you know so yeah so yeah so it's an experience going to Blackpool like that definitely something but yeah that's good to you so you know it's that distance isn't there doing

[00:25:28] putting this positive stuff up in over here and then the negative stuff and it's it's it's so it's um dizzying sometimes really it's where isn't it I would say that you know when I'm

[00:25:41] training and did work and working with groups and such like you know we've got this real conflict come you know these same vested interests you know like like everybody else but just want

[00:25:52] to live a normal life you want to go to work you want to have nice relationships you want to and money if we can we want to go on holidays perhaps you want to have a health we're not looking

[00:26:00] for something that that's somehow unique we're not looking for special privilege or anything else it's just we just want to be left alone get all the life yeah that's all of these yeah I know I'm not

[00:26:13] absolutely I mean you know once we're in a boring normal run in the male life I mean now it was a case for me so many years after transition I wasn't involved in activism and

[00:26:23] this of course it wasn't really needed to a degree I mean I'm not saying that there wasn't issues but things were you know up until I sort of seven hundred years but yeah yeah

[00:26:34] just want to go you know right yeah the good thing is that as more and more nastiness appears there are increasing stories of not more and more allieship and of course some people and that's

[00:26:45] the thing isn't it you've got to have faith in your and the British people too um and even that one person and Taiwan who is still following us to um just to to to look out for themselves and so

[00:26:59] you know all we could do is wish our listeners happy healthy times and just to keep the faith and things can only get better indeed in the great words of de-reem and totally

[00:27:12] players that a lot but I thought you'd swing into the international early at the end of that you see when I said yeah now I'll say that for another podcast that I don't get out of the words so

[00:27:24] I don't want to show so that would show my lack of socialist credibility if you ask me to say get what I was funny you know I went to uh I went to a retirement do about I can't have

[00:27:35] it half six eight years ago someone was retiring and um it was a big do quite well well known person in the area and at the end of it he was a committed socialist in the end of it we all

[00:27:49] had to stand up and send into the international we all had to do it and I mean I didn't know the words I was just you know that's just being I am going to start to referring to this

[00:28:02] comrades I think next time I think that's the way to go. What do you know what I'm telling this funny is now how we're as most people get older the tent and move to the right but

[00:28:12] uh increasing was happening there was multiple it's a lot of people seem to be moving to the right but not as fast as the Tory party so we've seen the zipper where sort of

[00:28:20] our insultuous I don't know that's right I think that's too much I think a little bit of a mid-fatial that people do my brother I love it daily it's as it's become a borderline

[00:28:34] communist and he works in the oil industry and that might be in the living point certainly moved left for this politics as a girl older yeah I think I'm actually yeah I've always been

[00:28:46] you know at the other end of the spectrum well not at the other end of the spectrum but you know I've always been not on the left and um in famously I mean I was quite I upset many

[00:28:57] members of my family for being a big fan of Margaret Fatsher and such like when I was youngster and I know no I was and of course I come for the new ones what I think coming out of

[00:29:07] from Strandings but coming out as a Margaret Fatsher. Yes that's um oh yeah I'm not having quite a debate I'm gonna say a debate but it was less of a debate than a yelling match when I

[00:29:18] announced that thought that Geoffrey House policies were really enlightened and that went down like a bottle of vomit. Yes you actually the working class you class saw that most of the been interesting but then again you know that's a shock. That's a shock. I'm joking I'm

[00:29:39] trans I should have just shared with that and said yeah yeah that would have been it but then nobody would know what energy we're talking about but yeah true well look take care I'm actually seeing you next week and you thanks Jill take care and bye bye everyone

[00:30:00] thanks for listening to this episode of Trans Vox it's been a joy to have you with us um if you want to make contact with us you can contact us at Jillian at transvox.co.uk

[00:30:14] and if you'd like to support the work we do please go to Patreon and go to page transvox and all of our money goes to our nominated charity and Jen you've chosen the charity for the next

[00:30:25] number of episodes which one of you chose. Our charity is called Beyond Reflections which is a charity that provides support and counseling to trans people and our binary people and their friends and their families across the UK and amazing charity doing some

[00:30:40] amazing work really important so please if you can give. Great and if you want to go and have a look at Beyond Reflections it's beyond hyphen reflections not all good okay and but as I say if you'd like

[00:30:51] to make a contribution to what we're doing because we love to help the people who are well-pots. Again if you've got ideas for the show things you'd like to ask us questions comments, applause or brickbats feel free to send it all into Jillian at transvox.co.uk

[00:31:08] and till the next time goodbye bye bye