Transvox - In the News this Week

[00:00:06] Hello and welcome back to Transvox. And today is a very chilly day and I have to say I'm wrapped up in me oud. Have you ever tried one of those? What's an oud?

[00:00:19] It's like, the basic is like a giant fluffy sort of parkery type thing, like a one piece. Hello, it's very warm. It's too cold. I'm one of those Geordies that moans about the cold all the time. I'm not. I'm obviously living in the south too for so long made me weak. Not a true Geordie, clearly. Anyway, how are you this week? Yes. Hi everybody. I'm very good, thank you. I think. Equally cold.

[00:00:49] But not moaning. No, it's just bright outside. I've got the heater on. That's okay. Good. Well, it's a lovely day today and I thought, well, why don't we talk about the news? Because actually it's been another one of those funny news weeks where there's been things going on. So, where should we start? Has it ever? We've got three things to talk about just to sort of warn people. We're going to talk about the trial of Brianna and Shire at the moment later on, just in broad terms, just to make sure that we are being abreast of that.

[00:01:18] We also want to talk a little bit about the EHRC, what's going on there. But let's start with something really positive and really groovy and really exciting. Because last Saturday, what time is it? 6.30 before the quarterfinals are strictly, there was the return of Doctor Who. And I know you're a fan. Indeed. Who's your favourite Doctor? Who's your favourite Doctor?

[00:01:40] Well, growing up, I'm Tom Baker's era. At my age, you can date people by who their first sort of Doctor Who was. I sort of barely remember John Pertwee. But of course, David Tennant absolutely is the best. It's very interesting. You said Ood. Ood is a creature in Doctor Who. There you are. Maybe that was a subliminal thing. Maybe I don't know Ood.

[00:02:05] There we are. There we are. It's like this is planned. But yes. But it's remarkable because it was, to my mind, very trans-positive return, which is amazing to see. Well, it was interesting because it's, I mean, Russell T. Davis was really behind the reboot with Christopher Eccleston all those years ago.

[00:02:28] And he's got a history as a gay guy of really being very positive, a strong advocate for gay rights, trans rights. Absolutely. LGBT rights in the wider sense of things. And I mean, I loved even in the, which I know is a lot of people who were quite annoyed about this. I loved the little children in need thing he did with Davos. Yeah, yeah. And Russell's decided that actually it's not a great idea to have baddies as wheelchair things. I think that's right. I think that's quite good.

[00:02:58] And I was having a long chat with someone saying, oh, for goodness sake, here we go. And they're having to do this, that, and this. Is it not possible for people? And I was saying, no, but it's a symbolism, isn't it? Why can't we modernize? Why can't we change the narrative? Of course. If you're, it's interesting because people, you know, you've seen a lot of really positive responses to the episode and we'll go into a bit more detail about it. But you've obviously seen on you loads of people go awoke and all that sort of the typical thing.

[00:03:24] I mean, people who seem to be perturbed about this representation, but have no problem with somebody traveling through space and time in a police box. I mean, it is, it is just nuts. But, but science fiction and you know, we will do that Star Trek episode one day. I'm sure has always elements of science fiction. I've always had an element of progressiveness within it.

[00:03:46] And Doctor Who, if you look back in some of the original series, there was progress progressive, you know, feminist politics within it and the way they are tackled certain issues. So it's not new. No. And, you know, and I love the fact that Russell Davis has gone because there was lots of talk about, uh, vocal progressiveness within the last series of Doctor Who and he's coming on us. I don't care. I'm going to really lean into this. Right. Yeah. You know, this is what it's about. It's about inclusivity.

[00:04:12] So, um, I thought that was a, to do it so forth to my mind, the way they tackled the issue, uh, to do it so forefront, but also handled court really deftly in my view, I thought was really interesting. And at peak time when particularly it's a still a program main name, but younger people is, is going to really speak to them. I think that's brilliant. It's that, it's that family audience slot, isn't it? Where people are together. And I mean, there's been, there's been quite a bit of pushback around the, the, the language.

[00:04:42] I think that's a standard of course, which is, which is understandable. But for those who did, you know, when you start asking, you know, I think it was the meep and you have someone, some creature, um, which expresses stuff. It wasn't an indefinite article or whatever it said. And, um, you know, and he says, oh yeah, say I'm, I'm like that. And then you go into this idea. And of course, suddenly when you discover the thing about the non binary issue, the trans issue, the, the, the illusions that made earlier in the, and the program about there being a son and such like, and what happens.

[00:05:11] And suddenly put two to get two things together. And you realize what is happening is we've got a trans thing right in the middle of a peak time thing with that, with a trans actor as well, as I understand. Yeah. Yeah. Um, a Yasmin Finney, I think, uh, she's in Heart Stoppers. Yeah. She's in Heart Stoppers, which was a, a big series aimed at, uh, older young people on setting. It's a British series set in schools, um, um, on Netflix, I think, um, great series. So she's came to the forefront in that.

[00:05:41] And obviously she's picked, uh, I think she's older than the character she'd be picked in because of the character 15. Well, you're right. I mean, for those of you who haven't seen it and he's definitely, um, search it out. Um, the character introduces Rose and there is an element, so they're not afraid to have a little bit of dead name in it. So as they're walking along, she's walking along with a mom and two kids ride by on the bike and shout so-and-so's old name, bit of dead name in bit.

[00:06:07] Yeah. And that's, you know, and, and I think they did think about that. My understanding is, but that's the reality of trans people, young trans people. And, but it was dealt with that those, those were not people to be admired. And the mother's defense of her daughter, Donna's defense of Rose, I think was, was really well handled. And then there's a little bit later on where like a mother and a grandmother are just slightly slipping up and saying, oh, we're trying to get it right.

[00:06:32] But sometimes I just thought it was really definitely handled the fact that families can struggle at first, maybe to get, make sure they get things right. And, uh, um, but the fact that they were loving and caring about it and defensive and supportive is the important thing. So I just thought that was really well handled, um, as, as a subject of introducing a trans character and the reality of a trans character of that age. Um, I thought it was really, really well handled and it didn't become then the subject of the program, but it was, it was there and that was clear.

[00:07:01] I don't know whether that's the impact it had on you, Jill, but it certainly, I mean, made me cry that episode. Just cause. Yeah, absolutely. Well, it was just that thing about, it was, it was also, there was a couple of digs, weren't there, about a male presenting doctor couldn't do this. Yeah, there was a bit of that. Which is, well, what, but why not? And it's interesting, isn't it? Because Doctor Who has been a, Doctor Who started in the sixties when, you know, homosexuality was still illegal. And you've had codes all the way through it. And there was one doctor, as I remember, had a rainbow coat. That's right.

[00:07:32] And there's been a lot of symbolism and signaling. Um, and I think one of the episodes was a, I forget what it was. There was a big episode, which is all about the effective, effectively what was close 28 at the time. And about having these rules that affect, yeah. And so they sort of took on, because the thing about, you say about science fiction, it's like an allegory, isn't it? For what's going on in the real world. Good stuff is yes, yes. Yeah. And of course, um, we have Jack, Captain Jack, who was pansexual. Yeah.

[00:08:01] Um, but of course, and what I love about it, it just, the character is the character without sort of trumpeting the labels. Yeah. And it's a bit like this. I remember reading something about, um, um, acceptance, acceptance of the Muslim faith in Liverpool and how it massively improved during the time that Mo Salah has been there. Yes. Because it's, it's because actually it's about what happens. It's the normalization of these. Yeah.

[00:08:28] I mean, it's a, it's a horrible, it's a horrible word normal cause normalization, but it's actually in some respects, it's that it's the, it's the usual as this is nothing to be, this is, you know, this is just the, the, the, the kaleidoscope of people. Right. And, you know, some people are going to be trans, some people are going to have different faiths.

[00:08:46] And, and, you know, um, you know, you get the pushback. So why do we have to have representation is so important. If I had a scene as a 10 year old, an episode of Doctor Who that had a trans character in when I was a screwed up, terrified 10 year old full of shame about who I was to see that would have been amazing. Um, to, to see that representation. And that's why I think it's so brilliant that we have good representation now on television.

[00:09:12] And this was another example of it and something that is, you know, it is global. So it will be seen by other countries on the world and certainly what watched in the States as well. And I just thought the fact that they didn't shy away from doing that because they knew they would get criticism in some quarters. They knew that some newspapers won't like it. Some commentators won't like it. And the answer is, well, tough, you know, if you go and live your, um, you know, as I think Russell Davis said, continue to live your sad, lonely lives.

[00:09:41] Right. This is, this is the world. Right. So I, I, it did fill me with real joy to watch that. Yeah. And I think, and I think it's fascinating, isn't it? Because it's been coming. I mean, we've had openly lesbian relationships. Actually, the, the previous doctor, uh, had a, had a lesbian. It was hinted in a lesbian relationship, Bill Potts in the Peter Capaldi thing. That was a proper lesbian relationship. And again, it was this thing about, it was just part of the character.

[00:10:09] It wasn't, Hey, I'm a lesbian. Let's make a real big song and dance about it. What, what you had was a fully developed character in a fully developed script doing stuff. And, and, and it's this thing that we often talk about as being trans. The fact that we're trans is the least important thing about us. What you want are strong role models doing strong things that happened to be, that happened to be different to the, the sort of the normative. I mean, that's the way I describe myself someday. I try and describe myself as a woman who happens to be trans.

[00:10:38] I happen to be tall. It is just part of what makes me up. And I think it's important that that is, um, regularized and normalized within representation of film and media. And there are places where that becomes more explicit. Russell Davis has written programs like it's a sin, which was amazing recently, queer as folk. The first thing I saw that he wrote something called Bob and Rose. Oh yeah. I love that. I love that with Alan Davis is about an openly gay man who fell for a woman. I think they got married in that film.

[00:11:07] And it was really just an interesting exploration of that. But, um, but when you talk about other things, having those characters, you know, as part of just that they're there and it's not, it's not the reason they're there, you know, the story isn't about them in trans or being gay or their race or their sex is that move we need. And, uh, and you know, if people object to it and say, well, it's just too much, well, it'll stop being too much when it's not,

[00:11:34] when we don't need it to be too much, you know, when we don't need representation, we still need it. And what makes me proud of course, because my background is performing arts and this has always been less of an issue with the performing arts because you've got people who are much more, who are much more in a talent, in a talent based world. It doesn't, yeah, sexuality doesn't matter. Actually, you either good something or you're not. And if you're good at something, you will get through.

[00:11:57] And there are, there's been very many, there's been all sorts of different ways of jigging, um, quotas and jigging sort of representation across the years. But it always gets found out because in the performing arts world, you can't fake it. But what's great is what they've done is resisted the urge to put non LGBT characters into those roles. So you've got LGBT characters playing straight roles, but also non straight roles as well.

[00:12:22] So what you're seeing is that it's a fantastic opportunity to get these people into the, into people's living rooms and just show talent. And once you show talent, you know, my understanding is, um, Neil Patrick Harris is going to be in the series. You know, it is really great, but also, um, is it Jinx Monsoon that one of the drag artists? And yes, it is. And one of, I mean, how fantastic is that? So we're getting the whole, we're getting the whole rainbow.

[00:12:48] Are they getting the whole degree of diversity in what, two or three episodes? And then of course, we're going to have a new doctor when, um, this one of three episodes is over, but it's been, it's been a genius thing to bring back that relationship, which was, which was so powerful. One of the most popular relationships of all time. Oh God, yes. Donna and David Tennant thing. And, um, and then, and then wrap the story around it. Cause it really has, I mean, it was, it was not the world's greatest story.

[00:13:16] It wasn't the world's greatest episode, but I think it's a symbolism and actually so much goodwill and positivity about it. I mean, it was a bit clunky when they did it, but you know, why not? No, no, no. David Tennant is a specific advocate for trans rights. I think he wears, he often wears a, I think he's, I think he's got a non-binary child, wears a non-binary pin. I've seen, I saw him with a t-shirt on that if actually we see the slogan said,

[00:13:42] stop obsessing about trans kids, you freaks or something, you know, proper, proper out there. Um, speaking up. So this isn't, you know, I don't know. This is a coincidence that this is, you know, um, so yeah, great positive stuff and good. And representation is just so, so important. And it's good to, sorry, go on. No, I was going to say, I think one of the things that he was wearing a, um, trans TARDIS. Did you see that? That's right. Yeah. Yeah. They sold it to, and it sold it and the proceeds have gone to a trans charity. I think it's about 14,000.

[00:14:12] Yeah. Yeah. Which is, you know, in this day and age for any, you know, so many people, you know, you're right about performing arts, but there are so many people that form us still a bit worried about speaking out and in support for what you get to you, cause you get a backlash.

[00:14:26] I mean, David Tennant was, was called a groomer by, um, the infamous Graham Lenahan, who was the comedy writer, who is, who's the epitome of a transphobic bigger, um, and attacked and attacked him, you know, so you, and I think, you know, um, I attacked him. So, you know, I think a lot of people even want to be supportive or a little bit worried just cause the atmosphere in the UK. So it's really heartening when people go, no, I'm going to go full in on this. There's no, there's no half measures on this.

[00:14:57] Um, so no, um, that's really good. That's a really good start to the week. It is. And it's interesting. And it's interesting because if you look at the news from the States, it's unrelentingly bad. There's a really good podcast and blogger read over there. Um, an investigative journalist who, A, calls out all of the, um, uh, the crimes committed by, um, people that wear skirts.

[00:15:19] No, and they always passed us, strangely enough, uh, in the U S and also does a lot of work around the legislation that's going on in the different American states. And I think if you're interested in politics, it's worth having a look, but if you're anxious about the trans world, it's probably best that you avoid it. And just, and just recognize that however terrible it is here, it's a lot, lot worse in other places.

[00:15:40] In fact, I just had to turn down some work in a country where, uh, because of my, you know, my status, I can't work there anymore because actually the threat is, uh, anyone who is LGBT will be imprisoned. And external people now are susceptible to the same punishments, which are stoning and death. Yes. And I've mentioned that before.

[00:16:01] And it's, and when I listened to people talk, talk about the UK, we do have to, we do have to recognize that we, however, however tricksy it is. And this is why I'm so much more positive or optimistic to the people. I think perspectives usually, however unpleasant, it's not excusing unpleasantness of where we are, but my goodness, we're, we're luckier compared to certain parts of the world. That's true. And I'm probably the one that's more, more pessimistic. Um, you're right. Again, it depends where you're comparing.

[00:16:30] If we compare ourselves to Europe, we, we sort of sitting in the middle, there are certainly more progressive countries. And there's certainly some Poland, for instance, and things that have gone backwards. And it's no coincidence that it's come along with the rise of far right politics in some countries, but, uh, and some horrible stuff happening in Italy at the moment as well, for instance. But, um, so it's up and down. I still think it's a progressive nation.

[00:16:54] It's the, it's the politics and the established written media controlled by a few people. Yeah. That's always fundamentally seems to have set the agenda for these.

[00:17:07] Ah, did you see that there was, this is one of my non stories, because I can't remember the name, but there's been a link now directly to all the trans, anti trans groups, all the anti non binary groups, all the anti progressive gay groups has been linked back to a specific American billionaire. Whose name totally escapes me. And it's not because of litigation. Just, you know what I'm like, the names, but actually this now this absolute correlation between specific individuals and the funding of these anti trans.

[00:17:36] Oh, I mean, definitely. It's true that, um, now whether it's from the bin, but certainly far right, fundamental, um, some, some, I don't know, tar brush, fundamental Christian and evangelical groups from America have been helping funding anti trans activists over here. But this is a specific individual. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's good. Yeah. They may welcome back. I mean, it's a political, it's a political process to attract trans people to then attack LGBT community as a whole, you know, it's all part of that piece.

[00:18:07] Yeah. Well, so that was the good news of the week. And I think, I think with due respect and just a trigger warning for anyone who's lifting now, we do want to talk a little bit about the trial of Burana guy. Um, now I don't really know how you pronounce that surname, Jen. Have you got some views? Yeah. My understanding is it's Brianna Jai. I think it's, I think it's spelled G H E Y, but I do remember at the time. So Brianna Jai was, uh, I think, was she 16, 15 or 16, 16? She was murdered. Yeah.

[00:18:36] I think in the Northwest of England, she was, yeah, she was murdered in a park and the trial is taking place of the two, uh, young people also teach teenagers accused of, uh, her murder. And that's, so that's now being reported this week, which has been difficult to read. Um, it's, it's a pretty shocking, uh, to read some of the court transcripts or what's been said in the whole thing is, it's pretty shocking.

[00:19:03] Um, but yes, there's definitely, you know, a really, the whole thing with Brianna Jai, I think is just, uh, affected me. Um, even at the time, because the way the press handled the case, I mean, there was a bit about, um, I think I spoke of it before, but I think the, was it the Sunday times or one newspaper altered their copy when they realized she was trans. Yeah. To remove the word girl and use the word pupil. That was just really shocking. Yeah.

[00:19:29] And then there's the other thing that, the other thing that just made me sad was realizing because she was 16, um, because of our laws haven't progressed, that she would be buried under the wrong gender on our, on death record because the state doesn't recognize that. And that, this is a girl who had, it was very clear who she was and had suffered bullying for it. And we still steadfastly know who she was. And yet the state says, well, we know better. Yeah.

[00:19:53] You know, um, that's, you know, uh, that, that, that, that, that was the added sadness to the tragedy of the murder to me, those added aspects. Um, but yeah, to, to see those reports was pretty, pretty horrifying really. And I think we were shouting out support and, and such like, and hoping like everything, if you shine a light under the rocks, you know, what you find are some quite unpleasant things, but which means we have to shine the light because we have to face them and be aware of them.

[00:20:23] And because that's how change happens, isn't it? By making people aware. It is, it is. I mean, interesting. My understanding is it's not being prosecuted as a hate, a hate crime, a hate murder. Um, but it does seem that her trans identity, you know, her identity is a girl who happened to be trans. Yeah. And the form part of that, if you, if you hear some of the reporting about some of the conversations apparently reported about, about her.

[00:20:50] Um, so I think I, I, I'm not a legal expert, so I find that difficult to understand. I mean, ultimately a murder is, uh, it's so tragic anyway. It's, uh, but that's really interesting. What, what I worry about is the reporting of it. Yeah.

[00:21:12] Well, I think that's that's a big, big, big comment on Twitter that reported the dead naming of Brianna, which adds absolutely nothing to public discourse of news. There's no need to do that. Even if it was used within the court, it adds nothing to report that name because I certainly wasn't aware of it. And, and that's not, and that's somebody probably just not understanding the importance of not deadnaming because as soon as you do, you are devaluing somebody's identity as soon as you do that.

[00:21:41] happened to me in the workplace that's not as serious as this but um yeah that that that sort of reported worries me that uh um and sensationalized that's what reported but it's really sad for all of us think in the community to see this uh this trial and listen to what's happened in this this trial you know uh it's it's it's um yeah there's nothing to say really it's just you know

[00:22:08] once the human beings have this immense capacity for art and drama and beauty and such like and extreme ugliness and violence and such like it's just yeah yeah you know it's one of those things isn't it and talking about uh another sort of less you know savory bit of the press this week um um basically what's going on with what is going on with the human rights watchdog because apparently it could be downgraded and blocked from the united nations rights parties over its recommended

[00:22:37] definition of sex so any thoughts on this well yeah i said the the the what is it these i can't remember how it's pronounced hrc the hrc equality and human rights commission which is the is it uk wide or just england i think it's uk wide i think it's uk wide yeah which has had some uh questions over their attitude towards trans rights with some of the comments they've been making over the years

[00:23:02] and actually some of the leadership as well uh of that body that many people in the trans community certainly lost um respect for it now the united nations are saying they're going to give a question over this so those over their proposal which would my understanding is what they're looking at is the the definition of sex within the equality act so it doesn't remove the protection for people

[00:23:26] with gender identity but what it would do for instance is say if that if i'm not right i couldn't be sexually discriminated against as a woman so if i was sexually harassed if under their definition because that's not my sex assigned at birth then i wouldn't be sexually harassed no which is extraordinary if i think about it yeah you just be harassed and and and the challenge here is

[00:23:52] whether they go back to what's on the birth certificates or whether they go back to how you were assigned at birth so i think getting your birth certificate changed asap is really really important for those of you in the process i suppose yeah many people haven't many people can't won't in the current process and and i haven't um and won't in the current process stands but um you know that needs that needs reforming but yes that either way that that

[00:24:20] narrowing of that definition meaning that you know um if somebody sexually assaulted a trans woman or a trans man if they were sexually assaulted or sexually harassed in the world we're not talking about crimes or we were talking about um the equality act but if somebody sexually harassed it they would not that would be like an employment tribunal things like that that would not be seen

[00:24:44] as sexual harassment yeah i don't know how they would codify it it seems a totally um ideology driven idea because it doesn't affect it doesn't in any way damage anybody else to do that it doesn't any way remove any protections from cisgendered women for instance within the act it doesn't

[00:25:07] it just means that some people have less protections in the act so why would a body that seeks to prove equality who rights wish to do that but that's the politics of the uk at the moment isn't it that's my uh pennyworth yeah and um it's it's one of those things isn't it that again what you have is this move to the right but we've got people there's always a counterbalance and this is my sort of optimism it's

[00:25:36] there's always someone prepared to stand up for it you know it's it's that classic thing about this narrow populist agenda has to fight in our world and these worlds and certainly uk a lot of government structures or a lot of public bodies that will not do that and um and it's for us to win the argument about why that's important because of course it's very easy to win the argument it's very simple very clear to people that don't understand that sex makes a lot of sense when you talk to

[00:26:04] people you have sex-based rights yeah well i'm a man or a woman because no one's really we've not really won the argument yet about how people's gender identity really works and yet you just have to spend three or four seconds talking to someone about identity and they absolutely get it and then they go ah right i understand that but you know one of the things we've got to do is is to start you know we have to go into that you know the um the big part of the bell bell curve which is neither end

[00:26:31] of the thing and start winning those arguments and and there are lots of trans advocates who are doing that there are tons of people too are doing that and and um and you know one of the biggest people who will do that is the media and russell t davis to come back to him that's why it's so important that is important but it's but i mean i think what what the worry is is you're right we need to do that but where is our voice being heard so it's not being heard in any of that mainstream

[00:27:00] print media it just isn't they just won't report positive trans stories the bbc are reluctant it seems to me um uh to report positive trans stories so there are areas and you know and we need to run that but there are but but it's a real battle because that's you know try and get a positive story in a in a in a newspaper you're used to go to find one you do get them if you get them on channel

[00:27:25] four you get them on sky you know the smaller sort of uh no sky is not part of murdoch's empire you know now it's an american organization it's it's it's better but you're right and you know what's interesting yeah i think it's the role of workplaces which are having the biggest impact because of course lots of world workplaces have a vested interest in making sure that the the whole of the pink washing thing works and that a they've got pink customers uh you know use the horrible

[00:27:52] dick expression and trans people are part of that so they're fine i mean it was quite interesting recently when i went into a shop and said um what's that i said someone on my mind i can't remember the exact specific phrase i said someone on my mind do you object to trans people and say we don't object to anybody with money in their pockets and i thought that was that was possibly one of the most refreshing things i'd heard that day because actually again it's about what's real life

[00:28:19] to most people if you're running a business is can i eat it myself and trans people are welcome because they're going to spend their cash and i said actually if you welcome more trans people you would see your profits really improve because there are so few places where you can really just go and chill out and so and actually sucked in their teeth and said that's really i didn't know about that and this is the thing we've not and this is why the russell t davis is great way they're educating

[00:28:43] the the great mass of people in the organization and the country who don't who don't understand the problem it's really interesting i can't think i ever asked that question when i first started shopping i think i can't remember ever asked that question maybe because it was a different world into the different world didn't feel any need to everybody just felt it was perfectly accepted as a topic for

[00:29:08] another podcast do you know what i i was chatting once to a person who was who worked in a this is what started me thinking they worked in one of the big brand shops you know for the shops for bigger women and that sort of thing it isn't evans but i'm not going to name the store for all sorts of reasons okay yeah they're all part of the same company now actually quite interesting there is only one company which is why all the prices are shut up but because i said um you must be they said oh

[00:29:35] yeah we always see tall people coming in and it's always blokes dressed up as women and i've said i think you're missing the point there and this and they said oh yeah yeah yeah but they're the wrong shape where the wrong you know it's all different it's all this and that and underneath it was just this lack of understanding that if you get a bunch of trans people going into your shop it's really really good news it's like so disappointed i mean i it is but that's the thing it's one person

[00:30:01] and this is the point isn't it you can have all these organizational things and then just one person can let it down and the reverse is true you can have really negative organizations and one person can make you feel really welcome yeah and i think i think you know savvy organized organizations and you know i'd like to think they did the right thing because they want to do the right thing but they've probably come to realize doing the right thing is good for the profits so yeah i see i i i

[00:30:31] just i'm the other way around i think i think they should just think about us as being people that come and spend their money because actually then everybody's equal in their eyes they're simply how much money can we get from these people and that's a really in a way that's so unemotional it's so the vested interests are so clear that actually that becomes a really safe space for people because you just say if you want me to spend money you do this this and this and then they look at you

[00:30:58] and think oh okay i'll think about that then and anyway because everything in my life resolves brand chopping as you know so uh well there's i think maybe a future pod yeah yeah let's do that well until then i shall look forward to dr who on um saturday night again and some more strictly and um it's getting close to the end of strictly i should be crying soon in a couple of weeks but uh that's nice we'll get a whole lot colder and let's cheer we'll do a pop we'll do a part at

[00:31:25] the end of strictly we'll talk about strictly we'll do a whole strictly pod yeah i don't even know we'll be waiting maybe next week speak soon take care all right bye bye thanks for listening to this episode of transvox it's been a joy to have you with us um if you want to um make contact with us you can contact us at jillian at transvox.co.uk and if you'd like to support the work we do please

[00:31:54] go to patreon and go to page transvox and all of our money goes to our nominated charity and jen you've chosen the charity for the next number of episodes which one have you chosen our charity is called beyond reflections which is a charity that provides support and counselling to trans people non-binary people and their friends and their families across the uk an amazing charity doing some amazing work really important so please if you can give great and if you want to go and

[00:32:24] have a look at beyond reflections it's beyond-reflections.org.uk and uh but as i say if you'd like to make a contribution to what we're doing because we love to help the people who help us again if you've got ideas for um the show things you'd like to ask us questions comments applause or um brick baths feel free to send it all in to jillian at transvox.co.uk until the next time goodbye bye