Transvox - Good News: From Tiaras to Trans Activism

[00:00:07] Hi and welcome back to Transvox. And in the midst of the gloom, peering out at me looking radiant in a very sparkly tiara and cat-shaped almost Edna Everidge type glasses is my old friend Jenny. And I can see immediately by the reaction that the words Edna and Everidge following each other are better going already. I remember Edna from the 80s and 90s. I'm not sure Barry Humphreys was

[00:00:35] necessarily the greatest ally of trans people if I'm being honest. Yeah, but Edna Everidge was. Edna Everidge was remarkable. I think the tiara is a bit much in all honesty. I think it really is a bit... Not only, yeah, not only scratches, but it just is a little bit much for slouching on my sofa in the living room. It's going to tear the cushions, I think. But I'm happy to be resplendent as always, Jill. That's always a good thing. Look, it's been a

[00:01:04] It's been a crazy few weeks and months and there's been a lot of hoo-ha and things have been up and they've been down. And I thought it would be quite nice just to take a break from all the gloom and doom and have a bit more of a positive session today and talk about what's good. And we're not trying to ignore the chaos that's going on around us, but sometimes it's about light and shade, isn't it? We still got to celebrate who we are and our lives and make the best of things and manage our resilience and our attitude. And so we're going to have a slightly more upbeat episode today.

[00:01:32] We will definitely try. There's never a guarantee when I'm in any room. But I think for crazy, you mean horrifyingly depressing, but I'll go with crazy for the moment. But yeah, we should never lose fire to the fact that in many ways there's some joyous parts of our lives and our abilities to be authentic in the face of adversary is amazing. And I think we always have to remember that phase by simply existing. It's an act of advocacy and

[00:02:02] two fingers to everybody that hates us. That's really important, isn't it? Indeed. I'm with you on that. It has to be said that it's been quite a week if you're of the Catholic persuasion because the app, I mean, it's really been quite interesting seeing some of the comments from non-Catholics in the social media world this week. But did you know, I don't know if you're aware, there's a new pope being elected? Indeed. It came out pope last night. That time where everybody gets assessed by a man in a dress, it seems to be. Yeah.

[00:02:32] But yes, we have a new pope. I think it's an American pope, isn't it? And terrible. Not a fan of Donald Trump and J.D. Vance, which is... That's a good thing. Always a good thing. And I'm not quite sure whether he's as progressive as the last pope. Not that it's a low bar, but the last pope was, I guess, the woke-iest of popes that we'd had. And he's, I think, picked this

[00:02:57] cardinal to a role. So maybe it's going to continue that slow progress within the Catholic Church. Yes. It's interesting, isn't it? I think the consensus such that there is listening to the dead air, dead space being filled by BBC News last night. And they were talking about this idea that it seems to be a middle of the road, bringing the church together. He's follows on

[00:03:23] from the previous Leo, who was all about the rights of the man in the street versus major capitalism. He's fought battles for the poor on behalf of powerful factions, and effectively defended the church against existential external threats. So it's interesting that the popes picked their names to follow on in a social position. Yeah, I hadn't thought about that. The last pope was pretty close to being a socialist, is my understanding. I wouldn't agree with everything that he spoke about necessarily,

[00:03:52] but that is my understanding. And I think it was notable that the last pope chose to wear much more muted and less showy garments, you know, with dressing the just plain white. And this one has gone back to more extravagant attire. But yeah, look, I'm not religious. I don't really have faith. But I have been in many ways. I'm jealous of those who do. And but it's certainly got to be improvement for my remember. I think it was one Christmas where I can't remember which pope.

[00:04:22] I think I don't know if it was the one that used to was it was the one before the one that was in the Nazi Party or something, if I remember right. Oh, yeah. Benedict B. Yeah, the one before that was said, I think it was in this speech said that I remember this because I thought it was brilliant, said that trans people were transgender people or transgenderism, I think he used the phrase, was a bigger threat than global warming. That's right. Which I thought made me feel quite powerful,

[00:04:47] really. I've never been felt I had that much power to end the world. But yeah, so it's certainly these days now. Step up from that. I think I think it's some quite interesting stuff, isn't there about it? Because I was reading some stuff about the last pope because apparently I think he's called your gay. He was Argentinian, wasn't it? Georgie? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Anyway, because he was apparently extremely. There's a book. I can't remember the name of it. I was skimming through skimming the day and talks about the last six popes. And they're talking

[00:05:14] about the fact that the last pope was very introverted, very quiet, extraordinarily shy. He was accused of having no charisma or anything really. And of course, when he came into the role, he had all this massive charisma. He was dealing with people who was doing these freewheeling press reviews and such. And what he said is that actually, obviously he's religious, so you would say this sort of thing. But he said that the role itself filled him full of confidence and allowed him to express himself in a different sort of way from what had gone before. I know this

[00:05:42] probe said some negative things about the LGBT population, but that doesn't mean the fact that you said something 20 years ago, whatever it might be, doesn't mean that you can change your mind. Doesn't mean that you can adapt a view to... Because if you're talking about humility and accepting all people, it's very odd that you wouldn't accept people that you don't agree with. There you go. Who knows? We don't know yet. And I would just rather be positive and optimistic about it.

[00:06:06] No, whatever the trend is of the last couple of popes, it hasn't been in as horrifically negative way as some of the politics of the world has gone. Exactly. It's a way to put that. And I always think in our community, as I said, I have faith, but it must be an added... It just must be added difficulty when, if you do have a religion and your religion doesn't seem to be supportive of who you are. I know I have a friend who has faith

[00:06:33] and has found an inclusive church. And I think that's amazing, but I've never had to sort of struggle with that part of my identity. So yeah, look, we can only hope progress is as progress does. Yeah. So I guess it's... We have to wait and see. And what I'm trying to take into it. It's very hard. It's very hard as well not to... And do forgive the two billion Catholics who I'm sure are going to line up now to be offended by the fact that it's very hard not

[00:06:59] to say Popey Mac Popeface, isn't it? It's just that British thing, isn't it, with that old vote. It's... None of us are ever going to be as offensive as Donald Trump posting a photo of him dressed up as the Pope. Yeah. Literally days after he attended the funeral and seemed to sit... Not that I judge these things, but in a blue suit, whatever else, in black, just sitting looking at his phone. So I don't think we could ever disrespect that religion as the most powerful man in the world right now.

[00:07:28] So watch that blue suit thing because William was... Prince William was in a blue suit as well. Oh no, I know. But it was... I know it was just picked up upon. It was just noticeable. Yeah. Yeah. You didn't have an orange face though. No, we did have an orange face and I went... But yeah, it's interesting times though, isn't it? Yeah. It is staggering how fast it's happening though. You've got to say that the church don't hang around, do they? None of this having a caucus for a month and then having primaries or all that nonsense we go through. They don't. It's Bosch in the ground, Bosch, white smoke, next one out.

[00:07:57] It is a fascinating, weird process. And I'd looked at that film Conclave. I must watch it. Yeah, I'm going to watch it. Yeah. Yeah. Just because it does sound like... I've never really thought about it, but it must be incredible... Within there, it must be incredibly... I don't know, it's politics writ large, isn't it? That they must be wheeling and dealing and all sorts of shenanigans go on, I imagine. Yeah, because you can't imagine it's just about God. This is the Catholic Church after all, which is...

[00:08:24] The organised church isn't always about religion and God. It does... Because it does have a place as a powerhouse, a political powerhouse. No, of course. It absolutely is. It's, you would argue, one of the... In some ways, one of the main spiritual powerful people in the world. And so much is read into it. Yeah, it must be. I don't know. You'd hope they would all be lied to Christian about how they went to act their work, but they decided who, but maybe it's a massive...

[00:08:53] ...bite and they're all bitching against each other. Who knows? But yeah, I'm going to watch that film, I think. But yeah, I think as a community, we just have to wait and see, but anything that's slightly positive, we have to look for. Yeah. And I know you're of the leftist persuasion in the world, and I don't know if you've come across the story of April Ashley, and... I, one of my... April Ashley, one of the first people I realised was trans when I read her book.

[00:09:20] Yes. And do you know who she had a massive connection with? Do you know, I've forgotten. John Prescott. April Ashley, yes. Why did... That was weird, yeah. Why did I know that? Where did I go and explain? Remember, mum, it's her. Just to remind people who April Ashley was. She was a model in this... You do that. I will get this wrong, because it was the two people that inspired me when I was a teenager. April Ashley. She was a dead hand in the merchant navy. Yeah. But became a model, didn't she? Yes. An activist.

[00:09:51] Yes. Died very recently. Yeah. In her eighties and nineties. Yeah. I read her autobiography about, I think she went over to Morocco or for a surgery, or I know she was in France and she became a model. And her story was amazing. And this was been in the sixties. Yeah. And I think they were, they worked in the same hotels at the same time. So Merchant. Al-Adi Hotel and St. Asaph, that sounds the thing. And Prescott was there as the commerce chef. Of course, that's it. The merchant navy, because he was in the merchant. Yes. That's the connection.

[00:10:21] So pre-transition. But yes, she ended up as a model though, didn't she? April Ashley. So she ended up, that's where I understood her from. So she became quite famous in that respect. So they lost touch with each other because what's his face? Prescott went on to Cunard. Ashley went on with her own journey. Yeah. But there's a sort of quiet, there's lost contact. And probably there was that Prescott recalls a memoir. A few years ago, I saw a video with April saying to PM, Tony Blair, why don't you do something about gender recognition? That's right.

[00:10:50] So Prescott says, I found her address and emailed her and I wrote, you might remember a young commerce chef and the tallow, the instant Asaph. And now you're, and now the Deputy Prime Minister and your wishes come true. And 2003 gender recognition bill was introduced to the House of Lords. Genuinely, Jill, I had no idea about that part of the story. I just remember sneaking into the library as a 15 year old and finding her biography, her story. And it was the first person I read about who'd had a gender reassignment, although they termed it in the

[00:11:20] sex change back then. So she had a real impact on me, April Ashley and Jan Morris as well. Her book, Enigma, the two books as a confused teenager I read and thought, oh, that would be me. I didn't know she knew old two jags, solid right hand thumb Prescott. And apparently it was a friendship that when they were reconnected around that sort of time, they stayed friends after that time and exchanged Christmas cards, all that sort of stuff.

[00:11:49] And obviously she got an MBE and all that sort of thing. But apparently they said, Ashley said, she couldn't wait in that. If someone threw an egg at me, I would have decked them too, but I would have done it with my handbag. And that relates back to the Prescott smacking someone. So yeah, that was brilliant. Yeah. There's a new book out called Bonjour Madame, I can't say it. Madame, you know, the French word for Mrs. Bassett. April Ashley and the Pursuit of a Lovely Life. Oh, is that right? I'm definitely going to have to search that out. Yeah.

[00:12:17] She had an impact. Genuinely, there were these two stories that I read that opened my eyes, went to the fact that people could, we didn't use the term transition. It wasn't used then, but could change their lives in that way. And it was so inspiring. And she was beautiful. And I just remember that, God, I'm definitely going to look that out. As I say, they're both her and Jan Morris died. Jan Morris book. Is it Conundrum? Her story? She was a travel writer. She was, I think, the first,

[00:12:47] she has something about the first reporter on the, when Everest was climbed with us. She has a link to that. I really inspire in those people that inspired, that are found and inspired from our community. And this is well before even, we didn't even have the term transgender then. It was all, it was transsexuals, et cetera, and sex changes and all that sort of stuff. Yeah. I love that finding people. There are people who inspire me now that I find those activists or

[00:13:13] those inspiring people. And I think you're right about everybody existing as activism itself, but there are people that really make the mark. And April was one of them, wasn't it? I'll give that. Genuinely learned something today, Jill. I'll tell you what, if you want good news, this makes me laugh, this story. Here you go. We've been taught about religion. And I don't know if you remember, in November 2022,

[00:13:37] there was a University of Cambridge sermon that claimed Jesus was trans. Have you heard of that? No. But people, no, I haven't, but I'd be interested to know what the evidence was. There was this, there was talk about that Jesus had a wound that had a vaginal appearance. Blimey, that's, that's one to scare. There, obviously the right wing piled on this, but I just think it's quite funny that it's been, it's been, it's been re-serviced by Pink News. I know we don't talk about Pink News anymore,

[00:14:06] but I might be looking at it. Well, yeah, we have a very askance after what they said about trans people, but I don't know if they've moved on from that. But yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, we're in danger of being a very religious podcast, not careful, but I think people put, lots of people will put on Jesus, I guess, the person, whoever they are of Jesus, of what they want to see in them. But I've not heard that one. I mean, I'm always up to date.

[00:14:31] I'm not sure the Daily Mail would be keen on that idea. There's most, most of Middle America seem to want to think that Jesus was a white man. Yeah, white man. Which is ridiculous. We, of course, know she was a black woman. Now, there you are. And talk about good news as well. There's Isaiah Perry, I don't know how to say it, Perry's in, has won a legal battle in this state, the removal of ex-markism passports, which is quite interesting.

[00:14:59] That's going to help non-binary people who can do something about that. So I think that's good news. The trouble is that the state is in such a difficult position at the moment. So is that in certain states, would have that been, or is it a federal thing, passports? I don't really know how it works. Yeah, and it's difficult to work your way through the American thing. But it was a lawsuit filed by American Civil Liberties Union. Doesn't sound like you're reading it off a Google page at all, Joe.

[00:15:27] No. You've asked me a question, so I'm trying to find the answer to it. No, I think you're absolutely correct. It's not all longer off the top of my head. The court ordered the State Department to allow correct gender markers for our clients. Okay. That's interesting, because the UK doesn't have that. A federal judge finds Trump's order banning transgender people from getting accurate passports is likely unconstitutional. So it's blocked until further notice. Until somebody appeals, they take it to another court. Exactly.

[00:15:49] It's extraordinary the way that, I mean, it's extraordinary in this country, but it's extraordinary the way that everything just gets litigated to the nth degree until Trump's very own Supreme Court decides which it was to do. I don't remember as a kid courts having so much power as they do in both this country and America right now in shaping everything about our lives. It's extraordinary. I'll tell you what now. I know you're sitting on the settee and you've got your tiara on. I need you to grip it. Okay.

[00:16:18] Because I'm now going to say two magical words, which I know make you go all of a flutter. So we're going to talk Abigail Thorne. Yeah, that is an inspirational person. Abigail Thorne or Philosophy Tube, as the channels know. But it's interesting how Abigail Thorne seems to have broken through this idea and is winning good parts now. And apparently she's got a major action movie role. We don't know what it is yet.

[00:16:44] But it's quite interesting that she is someone who seems to have transcended this idea of just being transgender and just being accepted as a good actress or actor or whatever. The nomenclage, whatever the designation is this week. Yeah, no, I think, yes, she's had a role in a Star Wars series. I think she did a role in House of Dragon. Yeah. So she started to get roles. But I think what was extraordinary, I think, about Abby and her channel. So I might have got this wrong.

[00:17:13] But she's a philosophy tube. It's been a fascinating channel for years. Big following talking about all aspects of philosophy, really, in a really interesting way. But it effectively, I think, transitioned outside of that. So we're still presenting philosophy tube, even though in everyday life it transitioned. And then did this basic coming out video that was massive. So she was basically putting on a costume to do the YouTube and then out of YouTube.

[00:17:40] So certainly for a few months or a certain period, she'd had transitioned, but people didn't know. And she then came out on YouTube. And I think it's probably the most popular one she'd done, which was amazing. It shot nobody had known. Or nobody outside, obviously, people that knew her. I think she's amazing. Yeah. Absolutely amazing. What she does is fascinating and interesting, but also her story is amazing as well.

[00:18:06] And now, yeah, she's winning, getting more exposure, which is brilliant. Oh, I didn't know. Oh, she's definitely a burgeoning career. I selfishly don't want to stop making loads of brilliant YouTube videos on philosophy, though, because I find the subject fascinating. Down, Fido. Down. Brilliant. No, just a brilliant communicator like that. And friend of all trans people, David Tennant. Oh, yes. Has discovered that he's loved by lesbians. What about that?

[00:18:36] Is that right? Has he tested this out? He was at a gala, wasn't he? And there was some conversation about who were the most fancied, who do lesbians fancy the most? And he came third. But he was actually hosting the conversation. I think Jack Davenport was on it. Patrick Dempsey or whatever it is. And then basically he was, they said all year as well. I just think he's become an amazing, I think one of his children is non-binary.

[00:19:23] Non-binary. She will not be named Rowling and et cetera. But no, I always loved him. You mean that man pretended to be a woman? Robert Gunn-Brave? That's right. The irony, eh? But my favourite doctor anyway, because he was an amazing doctor. But also, yeah, an amazing human being, as far as I'm concerned, in that respect. Yeah, there's some good people out there and there's good allies.

[00:19:47] And someone I always thought was a bit of a weirdy, I don't know what, weirdy character, but a strange sort of character was Robert De Niro. And he's come out this week talking about his daughter who's trans. It used to be called Aaron or Aaron. It's always, I never know how you can pronounce that male name, whichever you want. It has now basically come out as trans and is also called Iron, I think, which is the name. And he's come out with a wonderful quote.

[00:20:13] I can't exactly remember the top of my head, but it was something like I accepted and saw my daughter as my son. And now I accept and support my child as a daughter. It doesn't really matter because they're still my child sort of idea. And I thought that was a lovely, it was a lovely person. Yeah, there's every, I would hope, every parent that ought to aspire to. Yeah, I didn't know that. Again, I've learned stuff. I didn't know that. He's always been progressive on the left, hasn't he? As Robert De Niro, generally.

[00:20:40] And somebody of his generation may be seen as unusual, but he's always been that. But that's great to hear. There are a number of people, I think, there are a number of actors that have family members. Who's the actor? Pedro Pascal, who's amazing in The Last of Us. He's in a Marvel film. He's everywhere, Pedro Pascal. Has a trans sister and is a brilliant advocate. People like that. Jamie Lee Curtis, I think, has a child.

[00:21:06] And it's brilliant to see those people that, look, celebrity doesn't give you everything, but it's certainly much better to have these people showing the way about being accepted and inclusive and able to stand up for the community. And Nicola Sturgeon's come out there. Oh, God, yeah. I mean, stuff which is going on. Let's not get into the mucky side of Scotland. But fair do to Nicola Sturgeon. She has always been an ally. She has. And tried, you know what, settled it all off, but tried to push through some really positive gender recognition law.

[00:21:36] And has said, and has said and warned, if we're not careful, trans lives could be unlivable if we go the wrong way. And she's prepared to be brave and prepared to take the stick, which she has. And I wish some of our other politicians were as brave as that on this issue. So it's been looking at you, Labour Party. Yeah, I was going to say your mob are too busy celebrating a deal with America. They're not necessarily my mob anymore, but I'm still a member. I'm still a member. I'll declare that.

[00:22:06] It is my mob. I was thinking before this, you're a person who can have a fight on your own in an empty room. And I know that's, but we don't need to go down this route again. But I wanted to close with a sort of a final thought. So I've run a couple of two or three training courses with many people in each of them online universities, healthcare providers, corporates. And I have been astonished by the level of support, the level of awareness, actually.

[00:22:32] Some people aren't that aware, but the level of awareness of stuff going on that seems to be incredibly unfair to our population. Offers of help, offers of volunteering, money arriving into charities that we know of. And I think it's been really quite lovely that actually this action that has been taken against us has stimulated. I always talk about the bell curve. You've got people at one end who are violently anti-us and people at the other end who are violently plus.

[00:23:01] And I think what it's done is it's slightly moved that standard deviation because more people are now aware of what seems to be quite. In fact, I was talking to someone who didn't understand anything about trans people, quite, quite negative about the whole thing because of their personal experience. Now coming around and saying, this is just madness. This is these people in Scotland that claim to represent 34 million people, but they don't represent me. I thought it was really quite interesting.

[00:23:27] If there is, it's hard to say there's a positive about what it's been like over the last couple of weeks. But I think, I don't know if I'm, I'm sure I'm not unique in the amount of people that reached out to me that haven't done before. Listen, we've been under tap for years. This is, I think, overreach. Which, if nothing else, well, of course it's all nonsense and people say this is crazy. But this overreach has instigated people who've gone, hang on a minute. And I've had people contact me checking them okay, which is great.

[00:23:56] But also saying, what is all this about? This is all crazy. I'm not saying everybody's like, I'm not saying the consensus nationally is that yet. But that is heartening. And it's the one thing that's buoyed me is to see how many people have said, hang on a minute. And it is, because it's been complete overreach. And people who have maybe, maybe swayed by some gender critical voices without thinking about it.

[00:24:21] So once you suddenly start thinking about it, the implications of how silly and stupid and unworkable and unnecessary and all those actually, oh, they're staring at it. And that's not what any of us wanted for people's lives to be on Liverpool. There are some people that don't want us to exist. But most people are pretty chill, I think. I don't think they care. Yeah. I think for most people is, as long as it's not affecting my life in any negative way, you get on with it.

[00:24:49] And this is, as I say, this is part of my sort of hope is this is that overreach that they're there celebrating the victory. But it could be a period of victory when they realise, hopefully they realise that what they've won won't last. And we aren't. So I think there is, I don't want to go back on that subject, do we? But in some ways, there is some point. I'm not. But the point is, I think there's some positives to see, I think, which is the point you were making.

[00:25:19] And that's with our theme of trying the hardest to be positive today. Everybody remembers the Battle of Asculum. And this could turn out to be the next Pyrrhic victory. The Battle of Acherum is where Pyrrhus of Epirus was the Greek king who beat the Romans at such a huge cost to them that it was called a Pyrrhic victory. Is that where it comes from? Yeah. God, this is so educational, Jill. I'm going to have to start to tune in. I'm learning every time.

[00:25:48] And that's where I use the time for Pyrrhic victory. Like, I know where it comes from, I know what it means. It's a good word, isn't it? I like Pyrrhic. It's a good word. Is what, for Greek mythology? Is it all? It's not mythology. It's true. Of Greek truth. He's a Greek king who was fighting the Romans in the... Ooh, when was it? Well, they'd have been BC, wouldn't it? I imagine. So it was quite a long time ago. Ah, good old... Can't remember the date off the top of my head. There you go. Indeed. Indeed. There you are. Thank you for that. As I say, I urge everybody to listen back to this. You will learn something. Yeah.

[00:26:17] I need to come up with some facts and some bars. I need to start competing. Yeah. I think just my knowledge is of basically mainly shallow things. But I'll try my best. I do. I do a bit of statistics. And I just wanted to leave you with the thought that 73 and a half percent of all statistics are made up in the spur of the moment. That much? It's okay. And on that note, dear listener, if you've survived... This is going to be our quick 20-minute one with Jean Gibran on it as usual far too long.

[00:26:46] I'll let you take off your tiara. Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubles. Fantastic. I do like it very much. Speak soon. See you soon. Bye-bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of Transvox. It's been a joy to have you with us. If you want to make contact with us, you can contact us at gillian at transvox.co.uk and all of our money goes to our nominated charity.

[00:27:14] And Jen, you've chosen the charity for the next number of episodes. Which one would be chosen? Our charity is called Beyond Reflections, which is a charity that provides support and counselling to trans people, non-binary people and their friends and their families across the UK. An amazing charity doing some amazing work. Really important. So please, if you can, give. Great. And if you want to go and have a look at Beyond Reflections, it's beyond-reflections.org.uk.

[00:27:42] But as I say, if you'd like to make a contribution to what we're doing, because we love to help the people who help us. Again, if you've got ideas for the show, things you'd like to ask us, questions, comments, applause, or brickbats, feel free to send it all in to gillian at transvox.co.uk. Until the next time, goodbye. Bye-bye.