Transvox - Dealing with Social Media to protect Mental Health

[00:00:00] Hi, hi, hi and welcome back to Transvox. And after the Eurovision episode last week,

[00:00:14] Jen, it's back to normal service. How are you feeling?

[00:00:17] I'm not too bad. Not too bad. It was great to see a non-binary act with Eurovision and

[00:00:22] some real LGBT and trans positivity there. So that was good as always.

[00:00:28] And a peculiar act involved someone leaping around with no clothes on. Was that some

[00:00:33] Mr. Windows 95 or something?

[00:00:35] What were you revision?

[00:00:36] I think it was Finnish, were they?

[00:00:39] It's always the Finnish.

[00:00:41] They clearly don't want to host it, I think I got from that next year. But still, that's

[00:00:47] what we need. We need some madness in it. Yeah, definitely.

[00:00:50] Apparently, I think the early favourite was, I think we chatted a bit before and I think

[00:00:54] I'd seen Switzerland, Italy and somebody else. But as funny as on the night, you

[00:01:00] hear that creation song was absolutely fantastic. And it was, I thought I might have snuck

[00:01:06] through. It's always the significant message versus the sort of, you know, hub thumper

[00:01:11] sort of song. It's quite interesting.

[00:01:13] Well, we were WhatsApp enjoying it and you called halfway through, you called,

[00:01:18] you picked four and you got three of the three of the four you picked were right up there

[00:01:23] buying for it, which I thought was very impressive.

[00:01:25] I did. I did. And I know we're going to talk about something serious this week,

[00:01:28] but it did tickle me that everybody else was talking about the politics of it.

[00:01:31] And all we talked about was the frocks and how sparkly it was. So, I mean,

[00:01:35] that shows our level, I'm afraid.

[00:01:37] Yeah, the politics ticked me at the end, but it was interesting.

[00:01:40] Yes. But look, it's mental health awareness week this week and it's really important.

[00:01:44] And we thought we'd talk a little bit about the sort of social media side of

[00:01:52] mental health. There'd been in Gay Times this week, there's been a really

[00:01:56] interesting article that involved the charity Not a Phase and Ruth Mason,

[00:02:03] who is the director of services at Gallup, who's one of the leading anti-abuse charities.

[00:02:08] And what they've done is they've come up with a bunch of ideas,

[00:02:13] some thoughts to be able to help people navigate the world of social media in terms

[00:02:20] of mental health. And I know you've talked before about social media and mental health

[00:02:24] for you, haven't you?

[00:02:25] Yes, I think it's well, it's not just the social media. I think it's the media as a whole.

[00:02:31] I think it's about the news cycle all the time. So included in that television,

[00:02:35] radio news and the constant, I think the constant, it feels like a bombardment of

[00:02:41] negative articles through politics, through the news cycle, through media. Yes,

[00:02:48] social media as well. And that constant and then the effect it has on my mental health,

[00:02:53] which is significant, I think. I really struggle at times at the moment in finding

[00:02:59] how to cope with that.

[00:03:02] And it's really easy, isn't it? Because, sorry, it's really easy. It's continuous,

[00:03:07] isn't it? So it's not like five or six years ago when you used to get the old thing. It's

[00:03:12] like every day something.

[00:03:15] Thousands and thousands of articles compared to, you know, and it's interesting when I

[00:03:20] do training on this, I talk to other, we all live in bubbles, don't we? So people who are

[00:03:25] not part of the community may not see it to the same extent. But for me, it is literally

[00:03:32] to every day there's something else today in the news, something else today, the day before.

[00:03:36] And it is exhausting and depressing and anxiety and feeling and all of that at the same time.

[00:03:44] And I think I'm alone, but I really, really struggle with it. I struggle to

[00:03:49] navigate it.

[00:03:53] So I think it's an interesting, when we talk about mental health week and we know the mental

[00:03:57] health of our community has suffered through this. I mean, it's been recognised.

[00:04:02] It's been, I think the BACP recognised it, the council is one of the, I read an

[00:04:09] article from part of the councillors association talking about how the community's

[00:04:16] mental health has been affected by this new cycle. So yeah, I think it's a very apt subject.

[00:04:23] It's not a fun one, but it's new for me.

[00:04:27] Apparently this might have some tips in it which we can, other people might find useful.

[00:04:31] It is interesting to speak on. I went to a hate crime conference on Tuesday.

[00:04:36] That must have been yesterday and they were talking in the, and it's a regional one,

[00:04:41] but they were talking about the fact that hate crime is down.

[00:04:46] Incidents of hate crimes down. I mean, there's always a degree of debate about

[00:04:50] is it because of the reporting or is it this or is that, so it's almost that contend with,

[00:04:55] but all hate crime is down except for gender related hate crime.

[00:05:02] That was the kicker. But what was interesting is that immediately in the network,

[00:05:08] what was said was, okay, we need to know more about this. So we need to get our trans

[00:05:13] colleagues and I was there and another trans charity was there. We need to get them talking

[00:05:18] to us about this because we all need to rally around and support them. And I thought that was

[00:05:23] the thing. I think because everybody's starting to recognise now that this is the thin end of

[00:05:29] the wedge. So people need to help us. I agree in that. I guess that's a,

[00:05:33] I don't want to get too sidetracked in that subject, but you're right. I think

[00:05:36] there's, I think they have a difference in the police in terms of hate incident and hate crime.

[00:05:40] I think there's a subtle difference, but I think there's a debate around, it can be a debate about

[00:05:47] deliberately misgendering somebody for instance, the hate incident or not.

[00:05:50] And people have different views. Either way, the impact it has on people is the most

[00:05:55] important thing. Or you codify these things. And that's interesting that we've seen that

[00:06:02] that isn't reducing for our community in any way. Well, okay. Well, let's have a look at this

[00:06:07] article. It was in gay times and it popped into my, I don't particularly read gay times, but

[00:06:14] not that I shouldn't, but it just popped into my LinkedIn feed. So other people might have

[00:06:18] seen it. I remember being a bright teenager buying a copy of gay times and the news agents

[00:06:25] because it had something that was sort of gender identity related on the cover or something.

[00:06:30] Long time ago.

[00:06:38] So the first thing they talk about, which is how you need to modify your use of social media

[00:06:43] outlets and they are talking more about social media. So it's, they talk about reducing

[00:06:50] the amount of push notifications you get from your apps because I think that's interesting,

[00:06:54] isn't it? You often find that things that pop, if you go in India and the mood and you go and look

[00:07:00] at stuff, that's very different to suddenly seeing yet another notification pop into your feeds.

[00:07:06] So I thought that was quite a useful tip and I must admit I've gone and changed all my

[00:07:12] news feeds. So I'm not saying BBC news pump it and all the other news channels popping in.

[00:07:16] I noticed pink news. I've got this thing where they're popping into your channel all the

[00:07:20] time and they very rarely carry good news. I mean, it's a great paper. Don't get me wrong,

[00:07:24] so I thought that was a very simple little tip to get us started.

[00:07:29] Yes, it's an interesting one. I mean, I'm less in social media than I used to be, I guess. I'm

[00:07:34] on Twitter still, but obviously Twitter's got its own problems around these matters.

[00:07:40] I still think it's the case you can mute certain words so you don't see. Well,

[00:07:44] the problem is, I would say with that is a lot of us in the community use social media

[00:07:50] for positive reasons, but if I mute the word trans then I'm not able to hear from

[00:07:56] positive trans people that I follow and things like that. And I don't quite sure. So you can

[00:08:02] block counts and you can easily block JK Rowling, for instance, would be quite

[00:08:08] easy if you wanted that. That would be good for the whole country's mental health in my

[00:08:12] view, but you can block certain size and you can mute words. But then what you end

[00:08:19] up doing is not getting what you need from social media often, which can be a sense of

[00:08:26] solidarity and community. So I think that can be quite, I think there's some sense in that,

[00:08:32] but trying to do it, I don't think it's quite as simple as how they're suggesting,

[00:08:36] unless you're able to completely shut off. And I think what they're suggesting is that

[00:08:40] actually you minimize all the stuff you possibly can because sometimes if you're,

[00:08:45] especially if you're overwhelmed and exhausted, sometimes hearing too much or even a comment

[00:08:49] about it can overwhelm you. So Alan, their suggestion is it's a lot to do with the

[00:08:58] accounts you follow. So like you say, don't follow JK Rowling. You don't have to block

[00:09:03] it. Just don't follow her. And actually that affects the algorithms because who you follow

[00:09:08] that affects who you get into your feeds. So if you find someone who's a positive

[00:09:14] role model advocate sort of type thing, get into their feed, follow their post,

[00:09:17] comment on the post. You always get there's the post you get. I know it's just been really

[00:09:20] obviously on TikTok. Basically, and I experimented with this the other day,

[00:09:25] I watched a cruise ship video all the way through from start to finish. And I think

[00:09:29] probably I got, I must have got 20 cruise ship videos in my feed that over the next

[00:09:37] however long I was on, the next two or three times I was there and Facebook

[00:09:41] Instagram Reels work the same way. So if you're watching positive stuff and you're

[00:09:44] interacting with it, you are much less likely to see the negative stuff. So that's really

[00:09:49] important I think. Yeah. And I think that's how the algorithms work. And just again,

[00:09:54] talking about Twitter, the problem is I don't follow anybody that's negative towards trans.

[00:09:58] I don't follow newspapers that are. Well, the people who are positive will post articles

[00:10:06] criticizing an article. So you can't avoid it. That's the problem. So I don't have anybody

[00:10:12] coming from the source, but I will see people that will be responding. So for instance,

[00:10:18] you know, JK Rowling, I think was saying something on Twitter and so on. So people

[00:10:22] will be quote tweeted it, I put in the tweet up and then saying this is terrible,

[00:10:28] which is great because I agree with them. But then I'm exposed to it. So I think it's

[00:10:32] it's very difficult. And I think it's good advice, but it's very difficult, almost impossible

[00:10:40] to totally avoid that negativity if that impacts on you.

[00:10:45] And I think that's the point here because I think there are different times where when

[00:10:49] you're completely over around them, what they're saying is you set real important

[00:10:52] boundaries for yourself and stick to them. So they're saying things like don't look at

[00:10:57] the news before you go to bed because that's the last thing you see at the end of the day

[00:11:01] or you see certain apps or outlets and then you're sort of musing on it overnight.

[00:11:07] And I think that's quite interesting because a lot of people relax by watching social media

[00:11:11] and actually, you know, the old thing about blue light at the end of the day is a real

[00:11:15] nightmare. And I think what they're saying is if there's a big news story in the post

[00:11:20] and you're overwhelmed, if you're in a position to cope with it, that's fine. So for example,

[00:11:24] you might feel more robust middle of the sort of day, you're interested in what's going

[00:11:27] on, you're feeling okay, you've had a good night's sleep, then by all means have a look.

[00:11:32] But I must admit, I find it very easy to ignore social media and the media. And I

[00:11:37] found one of the tips I did many, many years ago with my when I was going through

[00:11:41] psychotherapy training and had a mentor, I remember my therapist supervisor telling me this,

[00:11:48] he said, don't listen to Radio 5 Live. And I said, oh, that's interesting. He said,

[00:11:53] I said, why not? He said, because it fills your mind full of rubbish that you don't need to hear.

[00:11:58] He said, when you're in where I was in Windsor at the time, when you're in Windsor,

[00:12:04] you don't need to know the traffic news in Norfolk. And it was something that really

[00:12:08] stuck with me and the amount of pollution that your brain soaks up through radio,

[00:12:13] especially speech radio, and phone ins, phone ins are the work of Satan. Now both of us

[00:12:19] listened to a phone in this morning on Radio 5 Live. And it's like, that is probably the

[00:12:25] worst thing you can do if you're not in a place to be able to tolerate it.

[00:12:28] I mean, I like radio for our Thai listener. Radio 5 is a BBC public funded speech talk radio

[00:12:39] and so they have phone ins but they have a lot of music. If I listen to it a lot,

[00:12:42] I like it. I listen to it more than any other channel. But you're absolutely right on that.

[00:12:47] Nicky Campbell, when he always has phone ins and has had some, you know,

[00:12:57] at the phone in this morning, he said, I'm feeling up. We're talking about sex education

[00:13:00] for young people. And I thought that's probably going to be people moaning about

[00:13:08] brand stuff. So I'm not going to listen to it because I'm not in a place.

[00:13:12] Yeah, that's it. And I think it's about having the courage to turn things off.

[00:13:21] Because actually, you know what the debate is going to be. There's going to be someone who says

[00:13:25] this, someone who says this, someone who says this. Well, actually, do you know what? Go and

[00:13:29] do something else. And I think that's the thing. We can get slightly addicted to the news

[00:13:35] if we're not careful because especially on speech radio, it's such the easiest way to

[00:13:41] consume news because you can be doing something else at the same time. So the messages and

[00:13:45] the poison, the vitriol are all going at the same time. So there you are.

[00:13:52] Yeah, no, I agree. And I think there's some sense in that.

[00:13:55] Yeah. So basically, knowing when and what you're going to listen to is key. I must admit,

[00:14:02] I did stop listening to radio phone ins and I got back into them with LBC when I was listening

[00:14:09] and I listen to podcasts much more than phone ins now. But I find that podcasts,

[00:14:16] they're more considered because you have a bit more time where the phone ins are just

[00:14:19] literally. I mean, I've been on phone ins myself and what they say is, oh,

[00:14:22] here's the trans person. Right. We've got a trans person on the line. Trans person line.

[00:14:26] OK. It's like thank goodness for the trans person.

[00:14:31] I think it depends exactly. I think it depends on what's in the news and what they're

[00:14:35] actually discussing. And there are. So I don't tend to avoid them all. But yeah,

[00:14:39] I've got a sense of. So I know the news about that's been coming in the news today is

[00:14:45] about sex. The newspaper said sex education for under nines and the details of it.

[00:14:51] But I know what's behind it because I've read I think I saw a headline in Telegraph saying

[00:14:56] that they're not to talk about gender dogma, whatever gender or dogma.

[00:15:00] Ideology. Yeah. I mean, it's not dogma. It's just telling people that

[00:15:05] the gender is a spectrum.

[00:15:06] What's that?

[00:15:07] A dogma.

[00:15:08] But you see, if you look at that piece of news and this is what's coming on next,

[00:15:12] which is, you know, don't listen to opinion all the time. Get sources of

[00:15:17] evidential data or opinions from people you trust. So what's interesting is if you look at

[00:15:22] the debate, what they're actually doing is watering down sex education and they're using

[00:15:27] the gender. They're using the gender subject to hide what they're changing in the Sex

[00:15:33] Education Act. So what they're doing is really basically bring. So basically they're

[00:15:37] stopping the conversation of any description around sex and relationships.

[00:15:42] They're also stopping relationships piece at certain times. So what they're doing is

[00:15:47] they're moving back to a more sort of traditional view of what relationships are.

[00:15:50] So they're saying things like it's not necessarily normal to have a mummy and a

[00:15:55] mummy or a daddy and a daddy. That's what everyone's picked up on is the gender piece.

[00:16:01] And because we're talking about the gender piece, no one's talking about the fact that

[00:16:04] they're actually really going to cause problems with teenage pregnancy because that's what a lot

[00:16:09] of sex education is meant for. I agree, but I don't think this has come in from the attacks

[00:16:14] on trans and these interacting schools. I think it's the other way around. Honestly,

[00:16:18] I think the attack on the trans is simply to hide the fact that they are eroding

[00:16:22] the rights of girls, women and girls. I think that's what's so stupid on this

[00:16:28] because actually what we know, the evidence shows is that if you engage younger people

[00:16:34] you reduce the incidence of pornography, you reduce the amount of teenage pregnancies

[00:16:40] and that's the bit they're freeing up. That's the bit they're getting rid of.

[00:16:45] No, they are. I agree with you. You don't need to play me the need for... But I think

[00:16:54] personally, I think this is coming from the government what's driving this is

[00:16:57] they're building that but the root of this is they want to use it to reinforce their attacks

[00:17:02] on not talking about a gender identity to young people which we know in schools they don't want to

[00:17:08] you know even almost even disgust. So yes, what's driving it is irrelevant. It's the effect that

[00:17:13] is... Yeah, I still think that they use the gender ideology piece because it's a catnip

[00:17:18] and actually what they do then for is they slide the stuff that they want to actually

[00:17:22] get through underneath the surface. I mean it was a feature of this government which they've

[00:17:27] used that dead cat strategy all the way since 2016. It's been an absolute... I mean Cummings

[00:17:34] brought it in and talked about it, didn't he? The dead cat strategy. You know something

[00:17:39] horrible has over gone. Oh there's a table there with a dead cat. Look at the dead cat,

[00:17:42] look at the dead cat and everything else slides through. So I still see this at the heart of this.

[00:17:48] Anyway going back to our article because we said let's do this article because we'll be

[00:17:53] very focused and very organized and it's not worked so far. No the trance of me ever being

[00:17:59] focused that you have to bring me into life. But you're right on the point about

[00:18:05] the news and what's news and what's opinion is it can be very blurred I think and very

[00:18:11] difficult to navigate and I think the advice to try and avoid opinion pieces is not a bad thing

[00:18:19] because they're likely not to be pro-positive about trance and if you trance or lgbtq plus

[00:18:25] to be honest are they at the moment. One of the things I've found is to say so I do two

[00:18:32] or three different things but I like the news I like politics so I'm quite yeah yeah me too

[00:18:36] so the first thing I do is I'll tend to watch the BBC and then I'll always flick over

[00:18:40] and watch Sky or Chamaphore or ITN and what's really interesting is you'll get different

[00:18:46] editorial contact tent and you'll get different spins so that's interesting and then I watch

[00:18:51] something like are we the new European or byline times and things like that so what you get there

[00:18:56] is a much more bad even watch Algeria actually and play it's come again. Yeah no I'm trying

[00:19:00] to like that and what you excuse me what you get is a completely different balanced view

[00:19:04] of the news and you see this in America when you're in the news in America when you watch

[00:19:09] your channel you get news served up to you which isn't really news it's just opinion pieces

[00:19:14] and that's what happened over here to a certain extent so if you're interested in your news and

[00:19:18] you're going to watch opinion pieces watch five or six of them so you get that I think

[00:19:22] you get a spread of opinion and I think it helps you become more objective. I think well I think

[00:19:28] politically that that makes sense to me I think it's more difficult when you're talking about

[00:19:32] if you're talking about in terms of trans content I think that can be difficult to navigate

[00:19:39] so I know in the UK the BBC is probably the most trusted news organisation widely and

[00:19:47] but on trans stuff the trans community don't have lost face with the BBC on

[00:19:51] on trans there's been protests outside the BBC they ran some particularly on the websites

[00:19:56] particularly an awful article about from somebody who was claiming that trans people were

[00:20:02] pressuring lesbians and things like that. Do you remember that article it was a couple

[00:20:06] years ago now that the person it was really badly done and sourced they've never properly

[00:20:11] apologised for the BBC so the BBC themselves have lost some faith in the community with the

[00:20:19] community which would you would think to be your go-to I mean I tend to you know for

[00:20:24] terms of a news source it's positive on that I can be reliably positive and balanced on trans

[00:20:32] I struggle a little bit I think channel 4 news for instance in terms of broadcast news

[00:20:37] and maybe Sky News are better on this subject than the BBC I think ITV but if you're talking

[00:20:43] about newsprint and news media I don't know where you go I mean you know you will find

[00:20:50] some positivity in The Guardian but you'll also find a lot of negativity so they have

[00:20:54] run positive articles on trans mental health for instance but they've also been pretty

[00:20:59] bad on it as well and you know we know that The Guardian in the USA the USA branch of The Guardian

[00:21:05] has criticized the UK version you know that people have with a so I don't know where you

[00:21:10] go in terms of this is the problem about saying to stick to that source I know who

[00:21:16] to definitely avoid you know avoid the Telegraph like a plague avoid you know even before

[00:21:22] for the Mail which is a hateful route but avoid the Telegraph and the Times

[00:21:26] Well I watch a couple of opinion makers and influencers who are

[00:21:34] quite objective quite balanced there's one or two on Twitter there's a couple on Facebook and I

[00:21:39] tend for trans issues I tend to look at what they're doing because what they're doing is

[00:21:42] the report and the horrible stuff but they're also reporting their good stuff as well and I

[00:21:47] think it's too easy to get into that negativity bias of not seeing there are wins as well as

[00:21:52] losses and I think that's really important so I think you know you're right finding the actual

[00:22:01] news is tricky but that's the same for everybody it's really interesting talking to

[00:22:07] Katie Munday who's a guest of ours on the podcast a little while ago and again this

[00:22:14] morning chatting to them about people with disabilities who say exactly the same things you

[00:22:22] can't get positive stories about people with disabilities anymore people of color you know

[00:22:26] people who are who have neurodiversity and all these different sorts of things

[00:22:32] there's a real push down on marginalised communities

[00:22:37] it's the anti-woke stuff I agree and but what I would want to just confirm there is nothing

[00:22:43] to the scale anywhere near particularly in the UK of their track through the news media

[00:22:49] of attacks on trans people anywhere near the scale compared to how many people we are

[00:22:54] yeah but it's interesting you said that because actually I was talking to someone in the disability

[00:22:58] world and said who said the attacks on trans people are nothing like the attacks on disabled

[00:23:03] people so I think okay I think I think in terms of but if you look in terms of the politics

[00:23:11] that gets reported in the news you know you've got a government here that are actively

[00:23:15] attacking as we've talked about previously and Ramesses question time it comes up every time

[00:23:21] you know the government attack line and labour parties they don't know what a woman is

[00:23:24] it's coded attacks on I'll take it is yeah we're just which where it's it's a bit like

[00:23:31] the small boats they they want to talk about Rwanda because they can't talk about anything

[00:23:36] else and they can't talk about anything that's successful so they find an attack line that

[00:23:41] someone's weak on and that's what it is and happens to be us and there will be a point where

[00:23:45] this will stop hopefully there's not been too much damage so for me yeah I would I would get

[00:23:52] off I mean personally I don't I never go on Twitter anymore I mean I find X just a big

[00:23:57] question to this I get the advice on this I think it's not by the advice but what does

[00:24:03] that mean for our community that are desperate and lonely if they can't use social media I

[00:24:08] love the news I thought and I love politics and I found myself at times I stopped watching

[00:24:14] question time I love question time because I'm scared of there being something that comes up

[00:24:20] there that's going to just make me upset and angry again frustrated so it's effective

[00:24:26] I take the point about mental health but lots of us haven't got the other support mechanisms

[00:24:32] so I mean personally I need to find a way of having to deal with it which is where I haven't

[00:24:39] found in a way because I if I have no social media and avoid the news and I'm isolated and lonely

[00:24:45] like many are in the community to a degree because that's inevitable for lots of us

[00:24:52] that's the bit that concerns me I think people are in a better place can I think when you're

[00:24:56] in a difficult place it becomes very difficult too so I think this is not this is great advice

[00:25:03] but I'm not sure for instance I'm not sure it works that well for me because I'm trying

[00:25:06] my hardest to navigate it but I'm constantly finding myself upset yes well and there's another

[00:25:12] thing here so one of the things that it talks about is looking out are actively seeking out

[00:25:19] uplifting stories so they recommend something called the Zoteria app which I've never heard

[00:25:24] about which is run by Vodafone, Stonewall and Gallup right and I've never heard of it and

[00:25:30] there's something called flourish which is spelt very trendily f-l-u-r-r-i-s-h a well-being

[00:25:36] page by Gay Times bringing together positive stories which is quite nice the other thing I

[00:25:41] have to be honest the other thing I do is I go to Facebook groups I'm in lots of Facebook groups

[00:25:45] I mean there's tons of charities that will help out and run social groups and well-being

[00:25:50] groups and there's a huge amount of charitable support in the UK for us our charity but

[00:25:56] Facebook groups are good I mean you've got to watch out for the dating side of things but

[00:26:01] I've never known so many lesbians who are interested in trans people who turn out to be

[00:26:04] probably very large people with huge credit card bills that they want you to fund on their behalf

[00:26:09] but it's too cynical yeah it's been quite astonishing how that works but I think this

[00:26:15] idea of looking for positive news is the key however the last bit just makes me laugh a

[00:26:21] little bit so it says don't be hard on yourself if you do engage with news that upsets you

[00:26:26] and I think this is the problem with mental health because if you're in a place where

[00:26:29] you think everything's terrible what's going to happen is everything's going to be terrible

[00:26:32] so this is where you need to go back to therapy isn't it because I think you and I are in a

[00:26:37] slightly different place on this nothing I mean it doesn't really upset me in the way that it

[00:26:42] sells to you because we're just different people that's not to say that either of us are right

[00:26:46] or wrong no it may well be there are people out there who cannot listen to a single news

[00:26:50] story and there are people who are there who are massively driven and motivated and inspired by

[00:26:56] all this horrible news to take action and it's that lovely blend that comes from this stuff

[00:27:02] which is so important in the community isn't it? You couldn't be more right I mean I do talk about

[00:27:07] this when they're training even things like misgendering some trans people cope with it

[00:27:10] better some people don't you know I struggle sometimes with feeling valid feeling outsider

[00:27:19] these just reinforce all the thoughts I have that I'd never be accepted as a woman so all

[00:27:24] that it feeds into my I can rationalize that it's nonsense I can rationalize it's

[00:27:29] coming from a place of bigotry of people but what hits which I think is where your mental health

[00:27:35] suffers is it feeds into your own insecurities yes so it depends so if you're in a more secure

[00:27:40] place when I'm in a more secure place mentally with mental health cope with it much better

[00:27:47] and when I was in you know and I may have coped with this better if I was just post

[00:27:53] transition because I had the joy and euphoria to what I think is where I am now is I've tried

[00:27:59] to just live my life as a woman right and I'm constantly bombarded by news and

[00:28:08] positive society which I don't think I can avoid whichever way I look at it unless I just shut

[00:28:13] myself off that wants to question whether I'm valid and that's what I struggle with and I

[00:28:20] think you're right on that so things like therapy the stuff we need to do to try and improve my

[00:28:24] mouth gets you in a better position yeah the guardian article I often refer to from the

[00:28:29] British psychological society section talked about it's a mental I think the mental health

[00:28:34] of the trans communities at price this point and it talked about how when you're bombarded

[00:28:39] by the news and the politics question of validity it's inevitable it affects the

[00:28:45] community so it has I think this advice is really good I think this advice is good to not

[00:28:51] be hard on yourself I don't think I am particularly hard on myself for being upset

[00:28:55] I just wish I wasn't so upset I wish I was a bit stronger course not hard and so just who I am

[00:29:00] you know yeah I am you know fair to say at times just sob when I read a story I just get

[00:29:06] overwhelmed that please leave us alone you know um please can I have just not a day or

[00:29:13] two without me feeling that the world is against me I get through it what I do is when I do things

[00:29:20] like positive like this podcast I'm really selfish in a way this podcast I'm here to talk

[00:29:27] to um who cares to listen this good for my mental health to talk to you too you know

[00:29:33] talking through these things helps my mouth doing training there is positive stuff being

[00:29:36] involved in the charity beyond reflections it's a way of doing something positive that helps

[00:29:41] but um go on sorry well I was going to say was there's um Mason from them the charity says and

[00:29:49] I like this quote yeah they conclude by saying uh for any trans person reading this or listening

[00:29:58] to this your well-being matters caring for yourself is an act of resistance which will

[00:30:04] allow you to show for yourself your loved ones and your community and I love that I love

[00:30:10] the fact that caring for ourselves is an act of resistance in the way that we talked about

[00:30:13] neurovision being you know two fingers or one finger or middle finger up to the haters and

[00:30:19] that's it's good you know being disappearing and and and being able not able to quote

[00:30:25] means that they're winning and for me you know I'm going to look after myself and I'm

[00:30:29] going to get out there and I'm going to tell them where to go because actually we have a

[00:30:32] right to exist more power to you I mean absolutely I agree I do and I get I do get

[00:30:38] that I remember this quote I've forgotten it now but the very act of being visible the VA act is

[00:30:43] an act of resistance is an act of resistance an act of political protest it's saying here I am

[00:30:48] in this current climate it was a safer it was absolutely the same for lesbian gay people

[00:30:52] through the 80s 70s and 80s you know that very being um I think what this is talking about

[00:30:58] and and we will still to do that and I will not be you know none of us we will not be

[00:31:02] cowered by this we will not be you know we will not go into the shadows I mean I'm speaking

[00:31:09] congress about when I had to do a big speech at a trade union said we will not be forced back into

[00:31:15] the shadows you know but when we're talking amongst each other you know we're here and

[00:31:20] we're struggling I think this sort of advice in these conversations are really useful

[00:31:23] yeah um because it's tough and I agree with you it will get better it will get better for

[00:31:28] everybody yeah you know and you know and I think we do have to remind ourselves that I

[00:31:32] always there's a better doing the training when I talk about the difficulties in the UK at

[00:31:37] the moment but I always and I'm talking generally to cisgender people who are there to understand

[00:31:42] I say I don't want to say you know being trans is not a curse it's amazing thing to be

[00:31:47] I love the fact that trans in many ways despite all those challenges so please don't feel like

[00:31:52] it's a curse we just sort of times have to think about the tough side of it um so we have

[00:31:57] to remind ourselves how brilliant it is that you know generations before us weren't able to

[00:32:04] be authentic um society even as tough as it is now was much more difficult than the 60s 70s and 80s

[00:32:11] right yeah and I think and I think you're right you know and I love what you're saying there

[00:32:16] and and what was fascinating to me on the end of this phone in that we both happened to

[00:32:19] just catch we didn't know we were each listening to there was an 18 year old young

[00:32:26] woman I think chatting about just leaving school and they were saying things like well

[00:32:31] the fact that they're saying these trans people don't exist well it's rubbish because we sit and

[00:32:36] talk about it in the playground and we we talk about real life because that's surely sex

[00:32:41] education is about real life and we know trans people exist and we can see them we know them

[00:32:47] and that and so that for me was the greatest thing because actually you've got

[00:32:50] you've got a generation of trans blind people coming through or gender blind people and I think

[00:32:56] that's the most encouraging thing at all we do exist we will exist we've always existed

[00:33:02] we just you know we've just got language and we've always existed so absolutely it's really

[00:33:05] good to hear that now yes I wanted to close on a slightly sad note if you don't mind because

[00:33:11] I know we sad but positive in a funny sort of way because um a little while ago I informed

[00:33:17] you that we had a listener in Taiwan oh right have we lost them and we've lost the

[00:33:22] listener in Taiwan so I'm very worried I'm hoping that the listener in Taiwan

[00:33:27] has gone somewhere else but I also want to tell you that our our listenership in Russia is

[00:33:33] growing how about that well that's interesting isn't that amazing are we confident it's not

[00:33:41] Russian bots um trying to under are we confident well yeah because they're undermining

[00:33:47] us they would I don't know boosting all the listening figures I don't know how the Russians

[00:33:51] cope with our Georgian Stoke on Trent accents but um I'm sure that's fine yeah references from

[00:33:57] the 1970s I think some of our 70s television references will probably yeah that'll throw them

[00:34:03] throw them but it is interesting that if you look at our demographic which I find fascinating

[00:34:07] you know the regular subjects are there but there are a lot of people who are listening to

[00:34:10] us from very for places in the world where trans people are under greater threat than they

[00:34:15] are in the indeed yeah we have to think so that's lovely yeah yeah and uh and it is it

[00:34:21] is important to balance that and I think that's that thing about perspective this

[00:34:25] um I'd it's a little bit tough at the moment in the UK but boy it's easier than

[00:34:30] Africa and I've had to stop working Africa as you know because yes indeed as a trans person

[00:34:34] I just can't go out there anymore yeah we should never forget that you know yeah we should

[00:34:38] never forget that so on that positive slightly positive note slightly positive sort of positive

[00:34:45] like a blend of positive you know we always manage to find somewhere to go out with uh have

[00:34:49] a good week and uh enjoy yourself are you are you are you back um sort of back with the

[00:34:56] rhythmic gymnastics on the horse this weekend I don't know I was thinking about it um maybe

[00:35:01] you know I just have to get my knees moving again but why not you know when you've got a

[00:35:06] passion no I don't know what I've got planned for the week Jill but um I know um none of it

[00:35:11] will be as interesting as when we talk together so right then everybody lovely to talk to you

[00:35:18] see you next week thank you everybody love you all bye bye bye thanks for listening to this

[00:35:27] episode of transvox it's been a joy to have you with us um if you want to um make contact

[00:35:34] with us you can contact us at Gillian at transvox.co.uk and if you'd like to support

[00:35:41] the work we do please go to Patreon and go to page transvox and all of our money goes to our

[00:35:47] nominated charity and Jen you've chosen the charity for the next number of episodes which

[00:35:52] one have you chosen? Our charity is called Beyond Reflections which is a charity that provides

[00:35:58] support and counseling to trans people non-binary people and their friends and their families

[00:36:03] across the UK an amazing charity doing some amazing work really important so

[00:36:08] please if you can give great and if you want to go and have a look at Beyond Reflections

[00:36:13] it's beyond-reflections.org.uk and uh but as I say if you'd like to make a contribution

[00:36:18] to what we're doing because we love to help the people who help us again if you've got

[00:36:22] ideas for um the show things you'd like to ask us questions comments applause or brick baths

[00:36:29] feel free to send it all in to Gillian at transvox.co.uk until the next time goodbye bye