Transvox - In the news this week - Australia and the USA.

[00:00:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Hi, hi, hi and welcome back to Transvox. And with me tonight, of course, my colleague

[00:00:13] [SPEAKER_02]: in recording this land is Steele. Jen, how are you doing, Jen?

[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm very good, thanks, Gill. That was a beautifully put opening.

[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_02]: It was.

[00:00:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Recording this land.

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. And I've been impressed by your sparkly rainbow like burqa. I think that's a particular

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_01]: thing. I think that's a bit edgy for a podcast, but you know,

[00:00:38] [SPEAKER_01]: never one for me to push boundaries.

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly right. Well, look, look, look, look, in the UK, as you know, some of our American

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_02]: friends don't know it's bank holiday Monday on Monday.

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I'd forgotten until somebody might have been on the phone.

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I just never thought about it.

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, there you are. Because lots of people who have sort of, you know, traditional jobs

[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_02]: work, you know, these normal hours and such like they got Monday off.

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm sure they're very much looking forward to it.

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And those of us who forgot to actually blank the day out have got lots of things sitting

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_02]: in our diaries.

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So isn't it weird that we still call them bank holidays because so many banks,

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_01]: you don't get many banks open any time these days on the high street.

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, online banking is open.

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's true. But yeah, bank holiday.

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Blaspheme the past day.

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure. You're going to tell me now that you remember going to a traditional bank

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_02]: and on the high street and showing your age up again.

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And writing a cheque to get some money out.

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I have that old cheque, you remember those?

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you remember cash? It was like this concept where you had like sort of paper.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, weird.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what a weird concept that is.

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Well, before that, I'm sure you remember using salt on a regular basis,

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_02]: just as a bartering mechanism.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Which is going to be nerdy.

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Isn't that where the word salary comes from?

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that right? It's because of salt.

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's yeah. So it's something to do with Roman centuries.

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I might have messed that up but watch it on QI.

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_02]: That's all right. But that's hot news.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's news to me.

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And given that we're going to be talking about the news today,

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to call that a podcast link.

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's a sting.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_02]: It's been a great week in the news this week, hasn't it?

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_02]: A great week in the news. A great week.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Fantastic. I mean, we're going to talk Australia, we're going to talk England,

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_02]: we're going to talk America and I'm sure we'll roam and upset people from the rest

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_02]: of the world as well whilst we're on an international sojourn this evening.

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_02]: So where should we start? Let's start with some good news in Australia, shall we?

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Should we talk about giggle and tickle?

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Giggle and tickle?

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Go on, explain.

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, isn't tickle this same safe place, same sex app where only women are allowed

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_02]: and a trans person has challenged that ruling and has been on it for many years

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_02]: and has been kicked off by an ex-quaternarily turf owner and the trans person I think is

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_02]: called...

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_02]: No, the trans person is called tickle and the platform is called giggle.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_02]: It's very confusing.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I think the trans person is called tickle and all we need is someone called slap

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_02]: and we can really have all of the tropes represented in one conversation.

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_02]: What a hell of a...

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_02]: No, she's called Roxanne Tickle.

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_02]: What a gift to headline writers.

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And I have to say it's a real story of trans independence and a really

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_02]: inspirational story so basically she was not allowed to...

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_02]: She was kicked off the site having been on it for a number of years I believe

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was called giggle for girls and it's like an online refuge where people can

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_02]: go to a safe space and share experiences men are not allowed.

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_02]: She played as a self-proved shoes woman, assessed by gender recognition software

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_02]: and passed but then seven months later her membership was revoked and the owner

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a bit as well as a stated turf was taken to court and I think you

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_02]: got the ruling in front of you, haven't you, somewhere?

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so yeah I did read this.

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Let me just bring that up again.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I think what was really interesting about this,

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_01]: this is quite...

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I think when you have these rulings it's often what the judge says

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_01]: and I think if I remember rightly the judge, I think it's Justice Robert Bromwich said

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_01]: in his Summing Or that he found that the case law, this is US,

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Australian case law consistently found that sex is changeable and not necessarily binary

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_01]: which to me is pretty strong and definitive language in terms of their law

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and that is basically saying trans people non-binary people exist

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and as simple as that and I'd love to see some judgments in this country that

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_01]: echo that or certainly some recent ones I know they have in the past

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_01]: but yeah that's pretty surprising I think from Australia because there is a

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_01]: strong anti-trans or there seems to be from my understanding,

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_01]: there are voices over there and politics can have...

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Right politics has made its way or right wing politics has made its way into

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Australian politics so it's so good to see that.

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean there's been a lot of vitriol and the creator Sally Grove,

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_02]: something like that has been pretty out there about the fact that they created the space for

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_02]: to be a women only space and they're basically saying irrespective of whatever treatment,

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_02]: whatever you've done, whatever her view is that there is no such thing as trans people and

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_02]: the trans person is male and that's right to say that but she's been taken to court,

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_02]: been found against. I think this will be one of those that runs and runs and I think

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_02]: but what's interesting is that there's a convention of elimination of discrimination

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_02]: against women which is an international treaty signed in 1979 by the UN so the fact that

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Australia's part of this means that other countries and if they defend it successfully

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_02]: through the high courts it means that this ruling will have an effect on other countries

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_02]: as I should say as part of this UN agreement so that's quite interesting because

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_02]: the 189 countries affected including India, South Africa and Brazil so if they go,

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_02]: if they stick to it, if they're brave enough to take it through the high courts and continue

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_02]: with this view it could actually have some really positive ramifications elsewhere but I

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_02]: mean it's only the first stage of battle but let's celebrate them. Well I think it was a

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_01]: federal rule wasn't it? It wasn't because I know they have a federation and states in

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Australia in terms of law so the Senate's found its way, I mean you know these things do get

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_01]: appealed and so forth. Yes it's really yeah. You know and in a sense I'm thinking about

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_01]: if this happened in this country well in the current law with the Equality Act they would have

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_01]: again absolutely found I think the same sort of judgment in the in terms of you know

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_01]: the Equality Act says you can't sort of discriminate there would be no case by case

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_01]: exemption basis on an online space you know there's no I just wouldn't see where that

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_01]: would be but yeah no I think that's I must admit it's probably the state of my mental health

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_01]: sometimes. I read the headline Australian court rules in landmark case and I sort of do I dare

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_01]: read that because I'm so used to having sort of bad news in cases over here that I didn't

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_01]: read it for a while until you mentioned it to me I thought oh do I want to read that it's

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_01]: probably going to be something grim again and it turns out not to be so. So I hope it gets

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_01]: widely reported because I think countries do influence each other whether it's through

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_01]: innocence or treat as a convention as you talked about or just you know politically if something

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I know what happens in this country can influence other countries when they might

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_01]: you know when they make positive or negative rulings you know because we're a global world

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_01]: these days so that's really important I think and great to hear. Yes there was mixed

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_02]: in the states this week so because actually I think Texas and Montana have actually said that

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_02]: trans people there are not allowed to change their driving licenses so there can that there

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_02]: can be no change in driving licenses yeah or would Tennessee and Kansas do that and actually

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_02]: irrespective of federal law so they've been told to ignore federal law if that happens

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_02]: or court orders anyway so that's pretty horrible so let's skate over that because we want to keep

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_02]: the mood light but and we can say that there's been a load of DeSantis backed anti-trans

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_02]: school board governors getting crushed in Florida so it's really interesting that

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_02]: when DeSantis backs the anti-trans you know people that people that the public are coming

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_02]: out and squashing that and I think you know that's that's pretty pretty good news.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I think so it's interesting isn't it Merrick you've got this such extreme so it's not long that

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_01]: you know that you hear we hear about California passing positive laws to protect young trans

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_01]: people you know that we have a vice president nominee that's passed a couple of really positive

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_01]: in West it's Minnesota isn't it he's governor of positive trans laws you know trying to

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Florida and Texas passing ridiculous laws like that saying you know you can't change your

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_01]: your identity on your driving license which cracky that'd be silly you know people aren't

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_01]: going to present as they appear on the driving license so it's going to create confusion

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_01]: for no other reason than dogma but I think hopefully we might start to see a push back

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean the election result is going to say everything and who knows in an ideal world

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_01]: a democratic government you know with enough

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_01]: judges in the house might try and pass federal protections for trans people I mean they're

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_01]: who knows at the moment that they're not they're not quite there so yeah it's it's it's

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_01]: win one lose one perhaps win another couple at the moment with this battle but I think

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_01]: what's interesting is and I think it happened in this country I think you know many places

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_01]: started to realize attacking trans people is not ultimately a big vote winner for you

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_01]: if you're coming as a throughout wing governments because people most people either don't care

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_01]: or they're supportive most people it's not the biggest thing that they care about

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_02]: no and it's even interesting in the state isn't that that Trump Trump even is backed

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_02]: away from the project 2025 thing which is massively anti-trans anti-woke

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_02]: um abortion and such like well he's tried to distance himself I don't think he really

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he really understands it because I think he really understands much

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_01]: at all I don't really think he understands much of what he talks about but they tried

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_01]: to back away from that but you know they've been hit with this uh weird um you know

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_01]: it's sort of saying they're just weird and it's true when the ridiculous amount

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_01]: of focus and obsession with trans people is just weird to most people in the states

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_01]: why are you talking about that all the time you know I think that's I think I feel slightly

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_01]: that there might start to be a turn in fortunes across the world I don't know whether

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_01]: that's just a bit of copium for me or I wonder if there is starting to see a turn

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_01]: you know um we see it in this country maybe you know with a different government maybe

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_02]: so I don't know yes I mean he he was himself talked about uh an end to the don't

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_02]: ask don't tell policy and um as you say he's um he's done all sorts of positive things

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_02]: and you know particularly um getting you know approval from ngpt rights organizations

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_02]: um and and he signed as you say lots of bills and and he he signed bills that ban the practice

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_02]: of conversion therapy and protected in a protected gender affirming care in Minnesota so

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_02]: he he has he's someone who's actually done something rather than talking about it but

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_02]: but I think you're right I think they're doing what our labor government did is they're

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_02]: staying away from the issue really it's been quite interesting to hear

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_02]: harris come out quite so firmly in the in the israeli camp given the sort of amount of

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_02]: democratic support for the palestinian side of the argument it's almost the first thing

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_02]: they've actually committed to and um they're talking about being sift soft on immigration

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_02]: and they have to point to the bipartisan bill that they that trump scuppered when

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_02]: you know they'd all agreed to stiffen border controls which is amazing I must admit I

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_01]: mean I'm a bit obsessed with American politics as are you I think and I've been watching a lot of

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_01]: the dnc and yeah and it's you know there's a lot of joy within that campaign now that

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_01]: you know she's replaced and a lot more positivity and of course the desperately

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_01]: will desperately needs for trump not to get elected but but saying that you know you

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_01]: it's interesting they're trying to spread this line aren't they of they always I mean she did

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_01]: say that you we have to end you know they did say there has to be a ceasefire but what

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_01]: not doing is going strong enough and insisting that there's a ceasefire now and we're not going

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_01]: to continue to arm israel which is what a lot of progressives on the left and a lot of the

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_01]: democratic party wants and a lot of young people want they want something stronger

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_01]: and they're still toeing this sort of line that the democratic and man republican party

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_01]: seems seems seems to be on so she hasn't shifted from that yet whether some of this

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_01]: like a you know kirstama's idea of not of not rocking the boat and not breaking the mink

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_01]: vars until you get elected and maybe um being a bit stronger on this issue i mean i was very

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_01]: interested in the dnc the the convention at the national convention um despite many requests

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_01]: they they refused to have an american palestinian speaker on the stage and they

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_01]: deliberately took a stand not to invite them which i thought was very disappointing because

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_01]: you know have that voice there because there is a strong democratic voice

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_01]: they're in support of that and i think he literally that's a mistake for them even

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_01]: taking aside the moral argument that you know both voices are legitimate in that party you

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_01]: know it's legitimate to hear from the i think they had the parents of some of the hostages

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_01]: there but it's also legitimate to hear from uh for the palestinian american so it's difficult

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_01]: now whether they're you know actually if you step back and look at the politics whether it is

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_01]: radically different the individuals are radically different than the republicans so

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_01]: i've been put it's a time to be positive but you know you sort of hope that you know if

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_01]: if it can be overcome in november that they will because i i did go back to the fact that

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_01]: you know joh biden despite his policy faults which i have issues with some of them he has

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_01]: always been explicitly vocal about supporting trans people and put people trans people in

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_01]: his cabinet i always go back to that more so than our politicians he would speak on trans day

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_01]: of visibility i know he was criticized for it weirdly but he would speak positively and

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_01]: make that every term it seems to me that he he took and i remember i think when if

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_01]: before the last election he on his uh so speech he mentioned trans people it took time

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_01]: to do that and i it was noticeable to me so um i hope it's interesting continues with that

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah it's interesting as a sort of practicing catholic isn't it that he i think he finds it

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_02]: easier to talk about trans people than he does it to talk about abortion to be honest

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_01]: is that so that's that's a i mean because what the catholic church i mean the pope

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_01]: more was it one pope i think it was a couple of popes removed once said because i remember

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_01]: this at christmas in a in a speech said that trans you know trans people i'm summing

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_01]: up a bit but basically were a bit as as big a threat to the world as global warming i think

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_01]: because something along those lines which i did think could be called blimey i know i'm powerful

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_01]: but not that powerful i just so you know um i don't know it's difficult because i think

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_01]: he's been very clear and positive in terms of anti-abortion um and women's right to choose

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_01]: and women's rights so i i don't know about that but i just know that he has been popular

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_01]: where i sit um you know advocate for trans people in that respect um so i hope if harris does get

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_01]: elected that she continues that and i'd like to think so i think i think so because i think i

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_02]: think we've seen some quite interesting speeches this week i saw i saw many of the big hits

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_02]: here's because they've been sort of summarized how yeah haven't they and uh i saw aoc talking

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_02]: i think is a star from the future and yeah amazing it sounded a bit scripted but you

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_02]: know pretty good hillary was good good um what was that phrase and it's time to start talking

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_02]: sense not nonsense which i thought was quite a good phrase they all seem to have these little

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_01]: little things i mean the one that i thought i thought really was michelle obama i thought

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_01]: she was better than barrack and you look at her and goes i know there was some talk about

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_01]: she would ever stand but as a public speaker she was just uh you know speaking to the audience

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_01]: she's just amazing i thought she was she was staggering as somebody that isn't a professional

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_01]: politician and in the traditional sense but yeah yeah fascinated to watch and uh yeah yeah

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_01]: so again you know i'm because i'm desperately keen for us not to have an you know a virulent

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_01]: anti-trans um president be elected in november i'm really i'm sure as you are i guess invested in

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_01]: what happens at uh in america but to be to be honest with you i think i personally believe

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_02]: that if trum comes in i think it's we're the least people on the were the least people to

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_02]: worry because i think there's going to be much bigger oh i think the world's i think

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_01]: the world's endangerable yeah but i also think it's you're right you know but also

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_01]: it will embolden all those because you'd wouldn't you know you'd make that argument as why

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_01]: why are all these states passing so many laws about trans they're obsessed

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_01]: yes obsessed with us they just are i mean maybe they're all closeted trans people that's why but

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_01]: perhaps the obsession is ridiculous for one percent of the population it's absolutely

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_02]: crazy if you think about it have you have you come across this project 25 document how to read

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_01]: it i haven't read it all it's massive and i know it's somewhere is it i can't remember the

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_01]: society behind it it's uh it's sort of x yeah heritage foundation the trust of vines former

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_01]: trust advisors and stuff but i think what where it's really scary is it basically seeks to rip

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_01]: up um the sort of federal structures and let them be replaced with um with party loyalists

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_01]: you know but when we've already seen in america the supreme court become political so

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_01]: politically biased as as a it's it's damaging freedom and you see you can see that with a

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_01]: demar with the democratic functions you know i think that's so i don't you know it'd be

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_01]: interesting i mean i mean how much trump himself cares about these things or just cares about

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_01]: one being popular getting elected and staying out of prison i sometimes think he's somebody

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_01]: absolutely no principles or no no actual policies he just wants to do whatever

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_01]: is best for him personally so i don't think he's even pretending that he's got anybody

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_02]: else's interests at heart i mean you know the good thing about the harris campaigners

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_02]: is has been this idea of hope this idea of no going back but should they talk about

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_01]: and i think oh yeah oh yeah i think it's it's joyous to see because everybody was so nervous

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_01]: about joe biden it was so there's a sense of change you know i'm shocked by how quickly it

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_01]: sort of turned around in the space of a of a month you know yes it's been great but but but

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_02]: i have some sad news and i think it's something you know we've talked about

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_02]: american politics american trans rights but it's time to talk about one of the big issues now

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_02]: i'm afraid jen are you are you already oh i don't know this sounds sounds serious joe

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_02]: well we're back to australia and i have to report that stef half the famous the most famous gay

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_02]: penguin couple has died in australia oh wow that is sad i like beg that is sad i was

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_02]: 11 apparently and um and apparently they they had this lovely gay relationship and they were had

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_02]: um they were sitting on pedals and then they had um they give them a dummy egg to set on

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_02]: give them a real egg to sit on and the parent had the real egg and then brought up children

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_02]: and such like which been absolutely wonderful and there's tons of research and i show how

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_02]: much gay activity goes on in the animal kingdom but it's uh it's it's lovely to have this sort

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_02]: of it's lovely to have this so strange conundrum in the world where we celebrate

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_02]: gay penguins and yet people then still want to get um down and dirty with conversion

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_01]: it's very strange isn't it well is it once it's true i think there are a number you know a number

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_01]: of that's been observed in plenty of animal species um homosexuality um exists as it does

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_01]: of course with humans exist i think because penguins are such an obvious

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_01]: side about the way they couple and the way they're made and there was a great i mean

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_01]: one of my favorite tv programs all time was parks and recreation which is the same kind

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_01]: and they had an episode about uh about penguins getting married and it turned out they were both

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_01]: boys and it was gay it was a lovely episode i love that program ideally and i love that you

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_01]: know it was the idea um that you celebrate that but yeah i mean it's sad that the the penguins

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_01]: died but so brilliant that they could have equal love in their in their zoo um despite

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_01]: whether you feel i suppose penguins should be in a zoo but that aside um it was lovely

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_01]: they got that love for each other oh i'm just looking i'm just reading the story now that's

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_01]: really heartwarming sad though isn't it doesn't it yeah yeah yeah so i don't just

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_01]: just is it sven the penguin so what's fenn's partner's name does um read that

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_01]: um yeah what's the emperor penguins as well i think wouldn't they yeah yeah i mean is there

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_01]: a grind diversion for the penguins that they could go on is there a how do you date in

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_01]: i don't know yeah i don't know how you date in them in the human world so i'm i'm probably

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_01]: going to find it difficult to understand how penguins date no i think oh i think i think

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_02]: i think a lot of this is uh it's probably left to the imagination yeah well a bittersweet story

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_01]: there is there's a bittersweet nice isn't it nice and sad though yes and next week

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_02]: of course as we know i'm sure you're going to be glued because i know you're a fan of

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_02]: the olympics are you going to be glued to the paralympics which starts on wednesday yeah

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah all sport i love that i love love any of sport yeah now i'll be watching plenty of that

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_01]: um as i watch any you know as i say i watch plenty of that so i'm looking forward to that

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_01]: so does that start at the weekend does it next wednesday i think i think they're doing

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_02]: the march of the chums elise instead of up on the same ascent so it's going to be a nice

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_02]: old proper french another french opening ceremony yes indeed well we'll look forward to that

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_01]: that's definitely something we could uh we could talk about yeah um you know yes we'll have to

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_02]: have a report from our roving paralympic podcaster yes i'm sure i'm sure we can get a

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_01]: a trance twist on something well i'll have to look out i'm sure there are

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_01]: i am be sure there's some trans and non-binary athletes at the paralympics as well that we can

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_01]: find stories about that would be interesting that would be good in it well i hope you have

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_02]: a wonderful bank holiday weekend jen and you are you doing anything exciting or i am doing

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_02]: nothing of any excitement other than things like you know domestic bliss like gardening and

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_02]: housework and and working on monday so there you go it's like oh yes how lovely

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_02]: we're blessed aren't we sometimes sometimes the ordinary ordinary ordinary the i can't even say

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_02]: having a normal ordinary life is all we aspire to isn't it you don't want to be standing out

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and campaigning on street corners well yeah i think i think that that is when we we count

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_01]: it's a counter breath blessings and and and you know and recognize our privilege that

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_01]: that we can have a you know a bank holiday can be just a time of just being

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_01]: you know doing hundred day everyday things thankfully we don't have to worry about

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_01]: bombs falling on us so yeah i'm looking forward to um i'm looking forward to this bank holiday

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_01]: of doing not much and going probably going down youtube rabbit holes which is what i spent most

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_01]: of the time doing yeah um you know but i'm trying not to get radicalized one way or another

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_02]: well i know that rabbit holes can be interesting because they're you know they they disappear

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_02]: because they're here today and gone tomorrow dear dear dear dear dear dear very well very well

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_01]: so really is that really the the note to end the end of podcast on i guess it has to be

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_01]: but i'm glad i was here today for you joe see you next week bye

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_02]: thanks for listening to this episode of transvox it's been a joy to have you with us

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_02]: if you want to make contact with us you can contact us at gillian at transvox.co.uk

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_02]: and if you'd like to support the work we do please go to patreon and go to page transvox

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_02]: and all of our money goes to our nominated charity and jen you've chosen the charity

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_02]: for the next number of episodes which one have you chosen our charity is called beyond

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_00]: reflections which is a charity that provides support and counseling to trans people non-binary

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_00]: people and their friends and their families across the uk an amazing charity doing some

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_00]: amazing work really important so please if you can give great and if you want to go and have

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_02]: a look at beyond reflections it's beyond-reflections.org.uk and but as i say if you'd like to make a

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_02]: contribution to what we're doing because we love to help the people who help us

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_02]: again if you've got ideas for the show things you'd like to ask us questions comments

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_02]: applause or brick baths feel free to send it all in to gillian at transvox.co.uk until the next time goodbye bye