Transvox - All about Wigs and Hair

[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, hey, and welcome back to Transvox.

[00:00:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And in front of me, we're Splendent in a Pride flag wrapped around her and of course

[00:00:17] [SPEAKER_00]: a pair of white cowbow boots and a lot of French up bracelets is my old friend.

[00:00:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure how many points really work.

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm very well thanks, Gill.

[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_00]: How are you?

[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it was interesting because I was in a Wemburg-ly yesterday and I was seeing all these

[00:00:33] [SPEAKER_00]: people wandering around with white cowbow boots on and such like.

[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And of course, because I'm a certain generation, I was wondering why there were so many

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_00]: people wandering around with white cowbow boots and hats and looking very, very sparkly indeed.

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Some of them seem to have bracelets all over their arms and everywhere else.

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And I had to, um, or that, a mutual friend about it was to say what's going on.

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was, it was explained to me these are what's called Swifties.

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, right, Swifties.

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, right.

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know what Swifties are?

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I did when I needed it.

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_00]: When I heard it, obviously, I got it straight away but I hadn't put two and two together.

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So as I, that was I envying all this new sort of fashion, the most powerful person in

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_02]: entertainment right now would have thought she is.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and Ed Sheeram was on stage with her as well.

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Last night I think so.

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_00]: That's obviously trying to reboot his career.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if he needs to reboot it.

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_02]: She often has an OSHA has a guest people on.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I've seen Robbie Williams share what Wembley stage with her doing angels.

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_02]: That was good.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, now I don't, I mean, I like Taylor Swift music.

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that we know for a bit.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Generation Passby by a little bit, which is clearly dead talented and yeah, massive.

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, made the Republicans in America go a bit.

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_02]: We will read that she was going to

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_02]: visciferously support the Democrats.

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_02]: That's enough for me.

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I was doing anything, yeah.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So we'll see.

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_00]: But I tell you what it led me to think and you see, it was interesting watching a

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_00]: picture of Taylor Swift and Ned Sheeram because I was actually quite struck by a

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_00]: how beautiful A. She looks but I noticed how beautiful her hair looks.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, as a trans woman herself that's has to wear wings and such like

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_00]: it was quite taken, taken in a fit of envy.

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_00]: You can imagine.

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just off with the first of all.

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_00]: But taken by how a hairstyle comes, you'll automatically change your perspective,

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_00]: you look, how you feel, what you think about yourself and I was just thinking,

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_00]: because I'm still like they wig wearing stage and I probably will be forever now,

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_00]: because I'd not sure I'm going to have to have the hair growth.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_00]: But I thought what was interesting is to talk all things here today.

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And in my case, hair today, gone tomorrow.

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, I think definitely, absolutely don't want the most important

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_02]: turn-in point for me to start to believe a good transition was getting hold of a cheap

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_02]: wig and putting that on and seeing myself in the mirror and sobbing because I thought

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_02]: actually it completely changed my view of myself looking at it in that respect.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd not sure if there was Jenny if I hadn't done that at that time,

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Jenny and I thought it would be possible and I had this cheap wig I got.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_02]: It's really cheap, there's only about 30 quid sort of a Bob-style wig and I'm put it down and

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_02]: it just suddenly thought this might be possible.

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't cry during a sore, it's just so weird.

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, play the big, I mean, wig back then, wig's played a big part of my life for them.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_02]: What hair is always because I think it's particularly, well not for trans women and the way

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_02]: of it is searching your femininity is through your hair, you know.

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, a previous transition.

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I think for trans men as well actually because I was chatting to someone quite recently

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and they were talking about, you know, the thing about testosterone at almost within seconds,

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_00]: you've got a beard, you've got hair growth because of such a, you know, a very large sort of

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_00]: strong, let's say that. It takes a powerful, oh yeah, that's even better would.

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And they were talking about how they, how they had they toyed with different hair styles and such

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_00]: as a socialic as well because they were trying to get used to the idea of a masculine haircut.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's almost like they're over, they're gone obviously, you know, with the direction they go

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_00]: and they're, they're almost over-agged becoming so masculine, almost with a very, very short air

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, very cropped almost and they said that it was, it was getting the confidence back

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_00]: to have something that was suited them but was masculine rather than saying I had to have a

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_00]: masculine haircut. That doesn't necessarily suit you. I don't think that's quite an interesting

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_02]: thought really. I think we all have to find a place with it's all part of a learning about

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_02]: how we present ourselves as it will be presented ourselves in our true gender. I mean,

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I thought sort of, a sheet would thought would work and it's sort of, to dig in a stock with it for

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_02]: a, I think probably 18 months until my hair grew out. And it was a bit of comforting away because

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I felt like I could have been on debt and didn't have to worry about it. I guess almost like

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_02]: a part of the mask is where I was using it. Dams are easier than having to wash your hair

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_02]: and style your hair yourself every morning. So there's many ways a lot back on that and thinking,

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, it wasn't a, it was a good time but yeah it's very important. But yeah when you're

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_02]: first trying to learn what works for you when I'm in mistakes. I remember I got a second wig

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_02]: that was a more longer, curly wig. I'm not saying like Brian made but got far off for more

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_02]: and curly wig. Just didn't work for me and I'm actually going to face you know, because I thought

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I could do. I thought why I'm sticking to this one relative straight forward relatively boring

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_02]: bulb. I had to have anything I want. At the end I just wanted to stick with what worked for

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_02]: me. So I had to reward that thing until it was falling apart. I was thinking,

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it would just disintegrate. It was just a little bit of a little bit of a little bit

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_02]: and I thought it would just disintegrate. It was just a little bit of a little bit of a little

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_00]: hairspray on it. It's covered most of it. It's one of those things isn't it's actually quite,

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_00]: it's actually quite daunting I think, especially in the early stages to sort out wigs. So

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the obvious thing to do is you go to a hair salon and you try on different wigs but

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_00]: the first thing you're doing of course is taking is you're showing someone yourself without a wig

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and that could be quite daunting. And a lot of people go to the sort of addressing service where

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_00]: they can try. There was one in Hampshire I went to ages ago. They had low and they sold wigs

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and there was a addressing service for gender curries people and such like, I think it was

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_00]: to have 30 or 40 wigs and I tried them all on. And that was really, really great but I know

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_00]: even John Lewis now are doing wigs and of course what they're doing now is they're sometimes

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_00]: arranging specialist sessions for trans people to go and identify the range of their feet.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's what I know about actually in the back end of September that's the charity

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_00]: where we associate this is a range. But they're now launching wigs and they want to obviously

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_00]: there's a large market in people who survive cancer of course. And that's quite interesting

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_00]: you can look here. I bought two or three wigs from a wig shop in our local shopping mall

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_00]: but at least quite daunting. It is quite daunting. So you went ten and your first wig you went

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_00]: ten. No, I've had the brave for it. No, I've had I have a machine to say that I have the

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_00]: opposite problem to you. I have a sort of shopping problem. So I must have I'm afraid to say

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_02]: nearly a hundred wigs. Oh my lord, a better some good ones amongst that. Well, you

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_00]: there's some absolute horrors. But the wigs are only exceeded by handbags and of course

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_00]: shoes, but let's get them back to the point. So I've tried on many and I just like to keep them

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_00]: because it is quite interesting how one's headship changes but also one's face shape change seems to

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_00]: change with hormones and maybe that's just losing weight and putting weight on or the

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_00]: weight. No, no, definitely change to step on the change shape. I made it I made a real error

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_00]: at the beginning by going out and doing the opposite to you and really going out and buying a very

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_00]: expensive wig. I mean super expensive and it didn't really I thought it should suit me and I loved

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_00]: the wig but it just didn't and of course every time I wore that I felt really uncomfortable. It felt

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_00]: uncomfortable. I felt really sort of underconfident wearing it but it's that thing where

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_00]: it was really expensive should be good, it was beautiful wig but you know that was the end of it

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_00]: and so what I ended up doing was going to this dressing service and having a third you know

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_00]: 23rd wigs to try on and the way I went and one of the things that the person told me there was

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_00]: by some cheap ones to get you started just as you did and then get used to it because actually

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_02]: it's quite an uncomfortable thing to wear really. I think that's it right, I mean because I'm not

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_02]: a very good plan as you know I just sort of got away then everything took over me. I'll

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_02]: cut this as possible and then within moments I was out in the car driving to the drive through

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_02]: my way garden and stepping outside the car and going into and then it became my identity and once

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I got it I couldn't sort of want to just keep it because that was my haircut people don't

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_02]: drastically change their hair every day so that's why I sort of stuck with the warm but um yeah it

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_02]: and you know it is interesting so there's those different approaches I just wasn't brave at that time

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_02]: to go and ask somebody so I just I just bought something over the internet and I wish I had planned it better

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_02]: but yeah they are actually kind of quite a comfortable hot hot summer and winding when you're in the

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_02]: worry in the wind and yeah and I remember we've talked about this before and remember the first

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_02]: you're going to just come and pull my wig off for a laugh or something like that. You know you

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_02]: have those never happened to me never wants happened to me other than when I fell over that time

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_02]: in when I first went out shopping and the wig fell off. Yeah me's brought on the floor and both

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_02]: boots fell out and I would I survived that so I thought I've anything but yeah I mean I think I

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_02]: think less and less than that I'm certainly people who are transitioning younger less and less

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_02]: to rely on maybe a week I think I think there's more opportunity to grow your hair and maybe

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_02]: how to if that's what you want to do or change your hairstyle sort of as your transition rather than

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_02]: our generation I think especially when you're older because as a trans woman you're older you're quite

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_02]: looking at you know I'm relatively lucky that I'm sort of lost hair through through genetics I guess but

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_02]: you know when you're 30s you start to do that my brother by 2030 he's lost most of his hair

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_00]: so which hat to really have a wig so yes yes now that's interesting so so we go let's travel from

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_00]: hair on the top of your head through to other bits of hair so you know nothing of course is you

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_00]: know actually having the rest of your face so I've never been I've you know again I've got a problem

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_00]: here because of course a lot of people use IPL some people buy I mean IPL is completely different now

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_00]: that's the what's it called something like course intense post light and yeah and that's

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_00]: particularly good for getting a very dark hair especially younger hair roughly face and two or three

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_00]: treatments can see you can see the real you can really say a change and it's really important

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_00]: thing to get to do because you know we quit use allows the hair to actually be to be killed off

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_00]: at the root but of course the problem is it works well for ginger or grey hair which is a bit

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_00]: when you're older so you have to do the thing where it's all plucked out there's an

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_00]: infidance I've got I've got a bit of a whole more more rush on today or a fog or it's

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_00]: called a common enemy but it begins to need what's the evolution yeah you don't just like your face

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_00]: so you don't just like your face so you don't just like play to a male eggs so it's not a

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_00]: powerful it's not an epilator what's it called so you try it yeah it's a sort of

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_02]: sort of the power and version of laser yeah I think people tend to have a

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_02]: atrocities cheaper than laser well it's the honest I've never used either yeah I've had a bit of

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_00]: an electrolysis and it is one of the tips I have which is really good as two things one which

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_00]: was to take a couple of aspirin before you go and have a treatment and the second thing is to

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_00]: are the yourself with green tea oil not green tea oil what such jam what's that tea oil what's

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah tea tea oil got limey it's a good job I'm not right now they've been proposals today give

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_00]: that a lot of them were a single word but I found that was really great so because of course all

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_00]: these treatments can be because of course what you're doing is you're often dealing with quite

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_00]: sensitive bits of your body you know sort of under your nose and such like it's really quite

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_00]: and of course once you get in your body it can be quite sensitive in certain places so

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I've had a fail so it's what I think I'm quite unusual I never have

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_02]: having as somebody that's been transitioned to a year it's not having an epilator

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah I still shave I mean I don't get some of the growth because of hormones

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_02]: but I'll show you because there's some respects because I'm just not very organised about getting

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_02]: around to it and I probably should have but also you have to let it grow a bit to do that and

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_02]: have already transitioned which means you've got to sort of go out with a better growth

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_02]: for it to work properly because you can't go out you can't shave and then go and have a session

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_02]: because it won't work because it needs something to grasp hold off so I didn't quite fancy that

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_02]: bit and then I thought yeah I just got so used to it so I managed it that way and it's never

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_02]: really been a huge problem maybe I don't have such a huge growth but I mean that so I still

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_02]: this part of me feels bad that it feels like I'm a bad you know a bad trans person not

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_02]: getting better at these sort of things because most people get the lives in order to do that

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_02]: and I haven't I mean hormones help because it's softener to it and I've got less

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_02]: and growth but yeah but I think I'm quite unusual I think most people rightly

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_02]: trying to get some sort of treatment around that about about that growth it really can make a

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_00]: special in your face and I because you lose that shadow that we often have that

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_00]: sits under the they're and of course it changes a bit the sort of skin consistency so

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_00]: your skin seems lighter but of course that's IPL anyway but it's very expensive especially when

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_00]: you get onto your body and you do large patches and such like and then you know if you're trying

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_00]: to do if you if you're pre-served really you have to you know that sort of your genital area

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_00]: then you have to really be careful there because especially if you have in bottom

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_00]: surgeries of trans women you've got to make sure there is nowhere anywhere and it's definitely

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_00]: you've got to find the most efficient way that you can't do to remove it well I think it's

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_02]: what I think it's what works for you I mean I as I say tabs are feel slightly that I should

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_02]: have done better but I think it still works for me I manage I mean I've been waxed I mean

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_02]: be ever had your legs waxed oh my god properly I've got a bottom waxed stuff yeah but actually

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_02]: to be honest you know HRT sort I'm very little nearly all my body has to disappear

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_02]: under that with HRT so I never it never was something I nearly need to wax much and even in

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_02]: the summer I found it didn't need to so I got very little growth so that was probably HRT that did

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_00]: for that yeah that's good for move talk about we're talking about removing here but of course

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_00]: the other thing is about getting here I think there's two things that I've talked to people a lot

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_00]: what one which is a hair transplant but the one is hair extensions as well so it's a lot of people

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_00]: have used hair extensions to sort of be about you know volumize their hair and such like it's not

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_00]: something I've tried because the truth is I'm going to end your hair really so but I'm quite

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_00]: ambitious of people who can use a hair extension especially on the top you know where you get the

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_02]: holes yeah I mean that's right I've never used to mine the bottom yeah maybe which is obviously

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I think you can buy things at home but generally you have to go somewhere and I do know that

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I was lucky to have a friend who was a hairdresser so when I got to the stage with my house long enough

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I asked my friend to cut it and then and that felt like almost transition and coming out again

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_02]: the first time I went out without a wig with my own hair and I've just sent a letter

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_02]: sort of graduated to Fardin a local hairdresser, literally wrote the bottom of my road

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I've used everything since just in that's great and you know so yeah I never thought about

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_02]: hair extensions is one route to go but again the I guess you probably need a decent hairdresser to

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_00]: fit them do you or I've never done it so I know the holes about it but I know the people who do

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_00]: it's where by them and they really love them but again I think it's expensive and such like

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_00]: but as knowledge expenses it's hair transplant which you know lots of people have done and there's

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_00]: quite a few quite famous trans women who have been out there and sort of shown their pictures of their

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_00]: hair transplant process right from the very beginning all the way through to sort of you know

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_00]: two or three years post-transplants and it's actually quite remarkable what hair transplants can

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of achieve and I guess it's supported by the fact that there's the home on the audition

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_00]: which is stopping me sort of the continued testosterone death of your hair

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I do think it's well one thing I definitely underestimated when a transition I never thought

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_02]: considered was how important hair was just to life as a woman it was for me anyway however

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_02]: and having bad hair days can genuinely seriously just upset you how much of my life was taken

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_02]: up with thinking about getting my hair right and buying hair products and all that sort of

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_02]: it's such a I never thought about it in those times you know I thought yeah I'm like my hair is going

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_02]: different but it sort of takes over quite a chunk of your life managing hair as a woman now

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_02]: you know says women will be used that as well but it becomes I don't know I mean it's probably

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_02]: just over generalization that it's so much important that it was before a transition then

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_02]: when it's making me feel the generalization but it can be so much more of one we part of the

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_02]: the maybe man who can be much simpler to manage I guess but yeah talk a big chunk of my life

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_00]: was obsessive about my hair when you see people as you walk down the street sits on trans people

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_00]: you know the sort you see people fiddling with their hair touching their hair, preening their hair

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_00]: combing rubbing touching it there's a sort of the sense of a big symbolic link between

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_00]: settlement and the hair it's quite interesting part of it is the look of it but I think there's

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_00]: a I think it's almost like a soothing thing that comes with it which is which is quite interesting

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_00]: because you often see a lot everybody but you know cis women tend to have on average probably slightly

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_00]: longer hair than most cis men now they said and so oh no definitely you know it's just takes

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_02]: more look and after doesn't it? No but massive by mass amount of hair fridge by massively

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't mean you to get what we're longer hair but generally but no it's it's I mean I'm still

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_02]: not good at styling my hair the things I wish I could do and I've practiced and not still not

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I've taken still when I had my own hair and I had it in a sort of bombsaw I couldn't still

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_02]: couldn't get it to curl under prop layer the amount of hair straighteners and curlers and

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_02]: gadgets I've bought over the years that most of them haven't really worked to get it all right so I'm

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_02]: never got to the point where I felt I could really nail my hair better if I was going out somewhere

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to real I had the one time I did it so I did go through a ton of wards to where I

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I thought I'll go for it he was in London I had a proper updo I just never had my hair up before

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_02]: proper just of almost wedding style what proper updo I think it took her that hairdresser

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_02]: blessed it took her like two hours or something the amount of pins in it was amazing when I

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I finally took them all out and got photos of my just a big lump of pins it was amazing I never

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_02]: had my hair up because I've always wanted to sort of hide my face so it was a confidence thing

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_02]: really having my hair up in a style that was amazing so it has paid the big part of my life

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_00]: hair as yeah I'm always a fake guy yeah you do think that this is how you do you do

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_00]: do you see people put I want something different ponytail I love this idea is you walk along

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_00]: the street there's like this thing walking about as the boards behind you as you walk along

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's quite nice that you know I need the thing is I need a wig with a with long enough

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_00]: to have a ponytail but it's these little things isn't it you come to transition you start

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_00]: figuring out how do you do a ponytail and it's actually it's I mean if you're you know if

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_00]: you're a sister you've done at times and times by the time probably you're at yeah it's seven

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_00]: or eight or six and of course it's like trying to get your fingers through and I got on the floor

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I've got no it's just they're this vanish everywhere these things and I try to braid once and

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_00]: of course a braid in a wig is like a disaster because it's not serving its true purpose which is

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_00]: to actually pull it together about so you know within three seconds it's skew effort it's

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_00]: four and a row or it's just like so you end up with these I think first thing with wigs you

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_00]: end up with these sort of slightly well I find for myself slightly balling styles and it's

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_00]: only after is a look at it and my hair was on over the shop and I was thinking why didn't

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_00]: anyone tell me and it's and I just wonder if there's a thing about you know there's a sort of

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_00]: symbolism before me in the hair that they don't really mention there yet but anybody else is there

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_02]: very awesome well maybe I think once you know it's like a video you're you're just obsessed

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_02]: about it once you see something that probably nobody else noticed really I would say they

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_02]: and once you see it it's like yeah now I think it's for many of us it's such a big part

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_02]: of us being able to assert our identity you know I I never had the confidence like some people

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_02]: do to transition without a work with just having short hair that was growing and I my

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_02]: people who do I have to transition like that where I just felt I needed something to hide behind

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_02]: a little bit and then to define me and I think I'm seeing more and more people particularly

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_02]: of people that's blowing the gender identity they've got more confidence to do that and

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_00]: which I didn't have on my side yeah and of course wigs are there fantastic and they're all sorts

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_00]: of materials there I mean they're relatively I'm not there there's some of them obviously

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_00]: in pair through the nose you can really pay a fortune for wigs but you know you can pick up a

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_00]: decent wig for a hundred hundred and twenty quid now oh you can you can still get them for

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_00]: less than that but the drummers don't last that are you consume which we're kind of such like

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_00]: or they're quite they get the go a bit frizzy and I know if you're not careful but somewhere

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_00]: you can actually run a brush through them and change the style of them so it's like you know it's

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_02]: they're not expensive I'm not ruled out going back to the wig because no because I've got

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_02]: older Maharashtra anyway even on a so I've kept my hair but Maharashtra stickers it was

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I've always had quite a bit of bristle a bit of hair did get frustrated with it I could see a time

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_02]: where we'll just go or study it I'm going to cut on most of it off and just wear a wig which

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd usually need to go as mad but I could see this up to you in that you know um

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_02]: when as I get older maybe I don't know I don't know can far off that sometimes in the morning

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_02]: where I've got bad bed hair and I can't get the knots out of it and I think or sort of I'll just

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to do it I'm not going to do it I'm not going to promise you I won't

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_02]: but I did enjoy the fact that I was the one thing I was confident of is to go gray

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_02]: yes I could I think he's sort of dolls I colored my hair forever so I spent a lot I always

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_02]: had bad idea and I went through different phases you know with highlights and I think I once had

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_02]: it properly jack black which were a jet-ray uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_02]: you go black it's very difficult for to grow that out and uh get all the colours um um so I

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_02]: had sort of slightly perplexed that they're ready to head before but during lockdown I just didn't

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_02]: go to headrests and thought gosh let me grow the grotes so I'd just let it grow out and I'm sort

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_00]: of to put the grain how or grain and the grey hair goes beautifully with the red eyebrows I mean

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_00]: that I think that's the that's the yeah that's the contrast that we really enjoy well the

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_02]: eyes but you know yeah yeah so no um so yeah I do which I didn't think I'd ever do I never thought

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd have the contrast to go grey but you know it sort of works for me as a girl all the sort

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_00]: of really as well as one of the one of the trick tips that someone told me one was that some of

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_00]: the wig shops um often get lots of wigs donated and um and so what they often do is hand on

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_00]: two wigs which are donated and they'll and they'll trans people come along not I don't know

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_00]: everyone certainly the one in your castle does this um if trans people come along they keep a stock of

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_00]: relatively inexpensive wigs so if someone comes in one's to try buy them and they you know

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_00]: talk about 15 15 20 quids or by the yeah but the good wigs which some people have donated

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and said they don't need for whatever reason you know there's a lot of shabby people who

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_00]: who didn't have their wigs or have to like myself you know eventually I'm going to have to get

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_00]: really quite a lot of these wigs and um quite willingly so I can make room for more shoes but

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm being that it's often worth and bringing up wigs shops and just seeing if they're

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_00]: got any donated wigs so it's you know I mean obviously I get everything you have to clean them

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and look after them as such like but it's it's quite an interesting thing to be able to do so

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_00]: price doesn't doesn't need to and and the thing is if you're feeling with down there I think it's

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_00]: sort of someone's one of the fastest things you can do sometimes to make yourself feel better

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_02]: it's just change your look a little bit. I genuinely thought about getting myself away

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I just sometimes because I work online with work now mainly just one day just putting on

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_02]: this opportunity for an air repair you know but I'm not sure but I think no chaos does that so

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_02]: well I would just a bit harder next mission is to do that but I still missed that because it was

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_02]: touch transformation I think that's that's the one thing I think I don't think it's very difficult

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_02]: for people who I guess it's difficult for such people who haven't I was a such a big bang for me to

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_02]: go from how a lot to put on a wig on and look in in the mirror and see something that was

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_02]: possible and see such a change whole face changed because it framed the face and it's definitely

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_02]: it was it was overwhelming and I guess people who haven't gone through transition don't get that

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_02]: that Russia gas because they've had some gradual get used to it or whatever I think.

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Fascinating subject now gel I think if you're younger when you when you do younger I mean

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_00]: you go through that bit where you don't wear a wig and maybe you wear a bandana or a hat yeah

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_00]: some of these things and you see lots of people doing that when they're a bit older until

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_00]: sorry a bit younger until because they bought the abilities to grow much longer here because they

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_00]: younger and they don't have the you know the excessive effects of testosterone for long period and

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's and it is astonishing I think assume with generation it's astonishing how confident they look

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_00]: because they just have this they can some people can rock our hearts got there and you know what I

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_02]: can't do I'm I can manage hats no it's because I've got a massive weird shape to head yes

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember when I worked at kitchens you used to have to have those paper little paper hats on

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_02]: and they always ripped on me but I would run the way I would run the way I would run the way

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_02]: on the right part you head on you I was desperate when we had a wedding because I'd love to do

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_02]: hats I'd be deaf dead up for it I remember how two weddings to go to and I was desperate to wear

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_02]: and I tried to borrow some from but non-adwork because I mean I just got too big ahead

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I suppose I could have gone somewhere specialist and that would've made for me but I didn't have

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_02]: the money for that and I was just so good kids because it was part of the wedding experience where

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_02]: hat do something now I've never never been the one that one of the biggest reps in my life is not

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_00]: been able to pull off a hat well that's the joy being younger was there and I was trying to

[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_02]: interested to say I mean maybe we ought to when we speak to colleagues and the people we're younger that

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_02]: actually my instinct is very few are some much of a minority of younger people who transition

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_02]: or are gender fluid and non-binary go through that wig phase maybe that's starting to

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_02]: that's our generation thing because with people transitioning younger as you said maybe grow the

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_02]: whereas when you're in your 30s like ours and you want to come into work on the Monday

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_02]: and present as Jenny as that was the only solution really I didn't feel like I'd go through

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_02]: a slower transition and grow my hair so maybe it is something that's going to be that maybe it's

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_02]: how I'd generate and chill a little bit yeah maybe I'm thinking about sort of non-binary people

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_00]: assume that they've got much more ability to use sort of free wheel three range their hair because

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_00]: actually they can they can have whatever they they saw have whichever standard one got they can be

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_00]: whoever they want to be and certainly gender fluid people can go about as important so

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I guess yeah it's not interesting isn't because it's such a fixed thing but actually such a symbol

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_00]: of statement of it's all in femininity is well it's all that figure about what Jenny is and

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_02]: being the social construct and we do what we do to assert our our agenda and I was thinking well

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_02]: if I was on a desert island on my own would I bother whether my hair was long or not or they

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_02]: got makeup on or not so apart that same piece you know it's expected of this in a sense to have

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_02]: longer female hairstyles trans women and we tend to have to assert it's a conversation further

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_02]: about transition really about how we have to in sit in a more transition sort of overcompensate

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_02]: a little bit because you're trying to assert who you are when when you may be being misgendered so

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's really I think it's a really interesting subject yeah and a lot of people do

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_00]: that thing where they go a really darker really really belong sort of thing with your blonde and

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_00]: curly and such like and then and then you get some people who do that thing where they they get

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_00]: sort of red hair or purple hair or you know and I think and I think that's quite as it's quite

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_00]: nice to see people with that sort of confidence you can sort of rock that style very early in the

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_02]: it was never bright purple why I sort of a purple hair got at one point purple hair died

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I think I was in telling it being unison colours from the union of work

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_02]: about odd reasons to have it because it's one of our colours but yeah I did have a purple tinge

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_00]: well yeah that's a purple tinge that's an image to conjure with indeed indeed you can make

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah well it's lovely to talk and it's nice to see you know what the experience is and

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_00]: that's interesting well look have a good week have you got anything exciting planned or you

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_00]: thinking are you actually sitting tempted to look at Amazon and buy yourself something I am

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_02]: necessarily I'm going to probably go to some shop it of course you're a little reality of what I'm

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_02]: looking forward to this weekend which is just really nerdy of me is watching a on Sunday I'll be watching

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_02]: live streaming from a press caught British hillcom jam with ship which is motor racing

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_02]: got behel and I love watching that and we've done watches as well and we've got on the

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_02]: a phone detection each other we're doing that and it's really good coverage shout out

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_02]: how clamp TV that's my really nerdy thing that I'll be looking forward to on Sunday I used to

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_02]: use to actually go and visit the go and attend what we don't have but um look forward to that

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_02]: it's exciting as it gets still for me and I will this is what we like so all about isn't it

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_00]: about normality isn't it so what about you Jill quiet quite weekend for me this weekend I think

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I think yeah very quiet actually it's been a very interesting time commercially recently so it's

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_02]: fantastic dog yes I imagine well you have a heck much more hectic life and I so you deserve that

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_00]: chill weekend I've had the thing where I've been away this week sort of staying in a

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_00]: house and doing your trans on a train thing which is quite a can be a bit stressful still you know

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_00]: that being thing are being slightly locked in the train with lots of a piece and then

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_00]: you know in a hotel is such like and then you get that I have to work at really really early

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and then I just find that I'm a bit knack of the little afterwards well I hope there were now

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_00]: so towels well you never wear yes I mean they had a bed yeah absolutely I had food

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I do that thing I still have a really muscular rope but I did do that thing and I did I don't

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_00]: know if I actually texted a table I did do that thing where I had a pair of fried egg eyes

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and a tomato nose and a smiley sausage and I have to say I did tech I did send that to people

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_00]: it didn't use me it's six o'clock in the morning I just didn't love I don't know how

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_02]: tells much now I used to go into the modes at conferences yeah as the one tweet of this

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_02]: part of the one tweet I regretted most when I tweeted about whether it was reasonable for me to

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_02]: read a several hours sausage in bright in a hotel kettle because he would so I then he got stuck

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_02]: as a tweet and I got more and more directions of that apparently I'm not the only person that's

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_02]: done that so yes I have always classy for me job you put that you put the class into still

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_00]: blunt trend some people would say that's not difficult well I mean you're talking about a

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_00]: subolog and that's almost like foreign for me well then we don't have a couple of people here

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_02]: so that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a something isn't it

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_02]: they they they check shops have subologs but no Korean graven much that's a anyway well I'm

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_02]: cultural yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes is Joe take care bye

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_00]: thanks for listening to this episode of trans vox it's been a joy to have you with us

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_00]: if you want to make contact with us you can contact us at Jillian at trans vox.co.uk

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_00]: and if you'd like to support the work we do please go to patreon and go to page trans vox

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and all of our money goes to our nominate charity and Jen you've chosen the charity for the

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_01]: next number of episodes which one of the chosen our charity is called Beyond Reflections

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_01]: which is a charity that provides support and counseling to trans people non-binary people

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and their friends and their families across the UK and the amazing charity doing some amazing work

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_01]: really important so please if you can give great and if you want to go and have a look at beyond

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_00]: reflections it's beyond hyphen reflections not all you okay and but as I say if you'd like to make

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_00]: a contribution to what we're doing because we love to help the people who are well put us

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_00]: again if you've got ideas for the show things you'd like to ask us questions comments

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_00]: applause or brick that's feel free to send it all into Jillian at trans vox.co.uk

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_00]: until the next time goodbye bye bye